Midwives told to stop using terms such as 'breastfeeding' and 'breastmilk'

[MissMoped]

because it’s not gender inclusive language, I believe with particular reference to the transexual debate.

This is at Brighton and Sussex nhs trust btw, good to know NHS money is being spent wisely btw, poring over the “incorrect” use of language.

The word “mother” apparently should not be used on its own; instead “mother or birthing parent” (um, isn’t that a mother?).

Breast milk and breastfeeding is to be replace by “breast/chest milk” or “milk from the feeding parent”. “Woman” should be replaced with “woman or person”.

Gobsmacked.

I've been reading the thread and the poster who said

First it'll be changed to pregnant women and people

But that's clunky

So in a while they'll drop the women and it'll be pregnant people

Is right.

Female socialisation is a bugger. So it's a no across the board.

A better approach would be to have the main stuff aimed at women ( the much larger group) and to say, even at the top. If you are a trans man or do not identify as s woman, here's where to find info relevant for you.

There are so many ways to do all this and cover all the bases.

The fact that it's women's stuff being targeted, and not men's. Is very telling. And none of this is about trans men really. It's about another group who want to decouple female biology from our well established language. So that woman/ girl/ female is nothing more than a role. And the icky stuff that only applies to us is discussed in the most dehumanising language possible.

You day isn't mother's day!

You are REALLY reaching with that 'explanation'.

I'm a mother. I am very happy for anyone who fulfils a mother-like role to someone who doesn't have a mother, to share 'my' day with me. There are probably mother figures who have earned that thanks more than many actual mothers, tbh.

Seriously, how possessive does one have to be, to resent someone receiving that card on Mothers Day?

I don't deny anyone a mother's day card. And yes, I am and will remain possessive of language that describes myself and other females. If you can't see the drive behind this and how it's going to go then I guess you'll have to wait and see.

I'm a mother. I am very happy for anyone who fulfils a mother-like role to someone who doesn't have a mother, to share 'my' day with me

Same
If they're being a "mum" to someone (in brackets because might not be biologically their mum) why can't they be recognised on the day too?
I'll still get my Mothers Day card, and someone else might feel recognised and appreciated too.
Doesn't take anything away from me, I still get Mothers Day.

If you can't see the drive behind this

What are you trying to allude or hint at?

I wonder what skin you have in the game. I find it hard to believe you're here for parental advice or concern

coupled with If you can't see the drive behind this you're coming across as a tin foil hat conspiracy theorist.
Mum of two here, and have been a MNer as a parent for years (deflected from Netmums lol)
Even if you want to believe people questioning or disagreeing with you are some kind of Conspiracy or whatever.

@pumpkinbump

I don't deny anyone a mother's day card. And yes, I am and will remain possessive of language that describes myself and other females. If you can't see the drive behind this and how it's going to go then I guess you'll have to wait and see.

You're being ridiculous. There have been cards for mother figures on Mother's Day for as long as I can recall. There is nothing threatening at all about the Waitrose card.

The stuff in the OP? Bonkers. The Waitrose card? Not bonkers. Just nice.

What cards are these?

Relabelling things so as not to confront people with reality and upset them...
Hmmm. Perhaps the Natural History Museum needs additions to its Dino signage 'TRex or false, planted evidence that the earth is older than the Bible.'
So many bases to be covered or is the trans ideology the only one everyone's kowtowing to?

www.theargus.co.uk/news/19078943.brighton-hospital-trust-launches-new-gender-neutral-policy/

This is the local newspaper article. it only mentions the language should be used when dealing with transgender parents. not all women.

@pumpkinbump

What cards are these?

Here's a few

www.google.com/search?q=cards+you%27re+like+a+mother+to+me&safe=strict&sxsrf=ALeKk031B1BYevKB2FVSqyV9Vs69d0b4Ig:1613005746664&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwixr7PU0uDuAhXAUxUIHZw9BVAQ_AUoAXoECAUQAw&biw=1422&bih=615

What cards are these?

The ones you've just been commenting on?! The you day ones you were disagreeing with?! Which were explained that not everyone has a biological mum present so it's nice to be able to celebrate their mum figure too? That you said "that's not Mothers Day!" to?!

Ok then

So if men can be mothers

And called mothers

Trans men wouldn't want a mother's Day card surely

Trans women have asked their children to call them mother

Gay male couples are presumably not interested in mothers Day except probably for their own mother's!

Lesbians are both mothers- mummy and mum for example

Mothers Day is a newish thing. Originally it was mothering Sunday which was nothing about parents but about going back to your 'mother' church.

Now mothers Day is a thing about dating 6 thanks to your mum.

And yes that includes women who have adopted etc.

However, and this risks offending people...

And a preface. Before I had kids i didn't get it.

Having carried two children, gone through birth, having had my mental health messed up perinatally so from pregnancy with the first and carrying on for some years. Being very ill indeed and losing essentially 8 years of my life to paranoia and depression (never had any MH problems beforehand). I have friends who have had life changing injuries from giving birth. I have a friend from my post natal group who died giving birth to her 3rd child.

I breathed both for 13 months. Anyone who has bf knows that is a commitment that limits stuff.

Women in the UK, and all over the world. Do the majority of the caring, chuck in career opportunities, make themselves financially vulnerable, spend hour upon hour being perky while wanting to go to sleep, run away, block their ears or just curl up in a corner. Yes some men are super involved. Yes some women love every second.

But.

Mothers Day for me is about recognising all that sacrifice and shit.

I am more than happy to extend that to mothers who came by their babies by less traditional means.

I am very much not happy at trans women assuming that 'title'. Without doing the sodding work that earns the title (late transitioners who fathered children, progressed their career, had a woman at home doing all the work, and then tada! I'm a mummy! Yay!)

And a trans man would surely want to celebrate on father's Day?!

The devaluation of the pain and sacrifice of becoming a mother really pisses me off. And before I had kids i had no idea. Which is why maybe others who want the title don't really get the depth of what 'mother' means.

@saraclara you said these types of cards have been around for as long as you remember. So they've been selling happy you day cards for what? Decades? Because I can't recall them.

it only mentions the language should be used when dealing with transgender parents. not all women

There you go then, as was originally said by someone upthread.
They wouldn't refer to me as it, as I'm not trans.
Tailored to the individual.
Even if some on the thread think "it's only a matter of time before they start not calling you what you want"
or whatever like was said upthread.
That's pure speculation/projection.
Why is it a bad thing if trans men who are pregnant get spoken to respectfully too?

Ok then

So if men can be mothers

And called mothers

Trans men wouldn't want a mother's Day card surely

No, they might want a You Day card lol
That's the whole bloody point
Though some say No to them as it is Mothers Day but how the hell a You Day card takes away from my Mothers Day card is beyond me.

@NiceGerbil agreed. Trans men surely wouldn't want a mother's day card, especially when it ssems so offensive to them to be called mother during pregnancy and giving birth. That leaves trans women, who aren't and can't ever be mothers.

[quote pumpkinbump]@saraclara you said these types of cards have been around for as long as you remember. So they've been selling happy you day cards for what? Decades? Because I can't recall them.[/quote]
No I didn't. I said:
There have been cards for mother figures on Mother's Day for as long as I can recall.

I linked you to the google image result for that sort of card. And way back I said I was liked the Happy You Day card because it dispensed with the clunky 'You're like a Mother to Me' which was what people had been stuck with until now.

I'm sure lots of people who no longer have a mother, but do have an aunt or older friend who fulfils that role, will be glad to have an alternative this year.

@Mockolate

Ok then

So if men can be mothers

And called mothers

Trans men wouldn't want a mother's Day card surely

No, they might want a You Day card lol
That's the whole bloody point
Though some say No to them as it is Mothers Day but how the hell a You Day card takes away from my Mothers Day card is beyond me.

Because its about celebrating one's mother or mother figure. If you're unhappy to be mother or referred to as mother, then really mother's day isn't for you. Start a you day by all means.

Trans men surely wouldn't want a mother's day card, especially when it ssems so offensive to them to be called mother during pregnancy and giving birth

Yes, so why do you have such an issue with You Day cards?
Surely that makes more sense that it doesn't say mum or mother on it?!

That leaves trans women, who aren't and can't ever be mothers
Yeah, we know but why are you trying to bring trans women into it?!

@saraclara My mistake, apologies. Fair enough, that's your view. It's a naive one in my opinion but we're all entitled to our opinion.

@Mockolate

Trans men surely wouldn't want a mother's day card, especially when it ssems so offensive to them to be called mother during pregnancy and giving birth

Yes, so why do you have such an issue with You Day cards?
Surely that makes more sense that it doesn't say mum or mother on it?!

That leaves trans women, who aren't and can't ever be mothers
Yeah, we know but why are you trying to bring trans women into it?!

Because I believe this is the reasoning behind it, obviously.

Because its about celebrating one's mother or mother figure. If you're unhappy to be mother or referred to as mother, then really mother's day isn't for you. Start a you day by all means

Why are you trying to make it all about people who are trans?
What about mother figures who are not trans, but aunties for example?
Should they not be recognised, or sent a card?
It can be sent to them too!

OMG @pumpkinbump. They're now calling birthdays 'you days' too!

www.google.com/search?q=all+about+you+day&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwjbzujW0uDuAhWDweAKHRqXDsUQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=all+about+you+day&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQAzICCAAyAggAMgQIABAYMgQIABAYMgQIABAYMgQIABAYMgQIABAYMgQIABAYMgQIABAYMgQIABAYOgQIIxAnOgQIABBDOgUIABCxAzoHCAAQsQMQQzoICAAQsQMQgwFQ1cM6WJzbOmCr5DpoAHAAeACAAcYBiAGNDJIBBDEzLjSYAQCgAQGqAQtnd3Mtd2l6LWltZ8ABAQ&sclient=img&ei=t4MkYJuXLIODgwearrqoDA&bih=615&biw=1422&safe=strict

[quote pumpkinbump]@saraclara My mistake, apologies. Fair enough, that's your view. It's a naive one in my opinion but we're all entitled to our opinion.[/quote]
Thank you for the apology