Midwives told to stop using terms such as 'breastfeeding' and 'breastmilk'

[MissMoped]

because it’s not gender inclusive language, I believe with particular reference to the transexual debate.

This is at Brighton and Sussex nhs trust btw, good to know NHS money is being spent wisely btw, poring over the “incorrect” use of language.

The word “mother” apparently should not be used on its own; instead “mother or birthing parent” (um, isn’t that a mother?).

Breast milk and breastfeeding is to be replace by “breast/chest milk” or “milk from the feeding parent”. “Woman” should be replaced with “woman or person”.

Gobsmacked.

I would quite happily describe myself as Cis in the right context

You might. I wouldn’t. It’s a meaningless and unnecessary term. Moreover it creates a misleading and imaginary equivalence between “classes” of women - classes that don’t exist, because there are women (adult human females with the capacity to conceive and bear children) and transwomen* who are men who think they are women, but literally have no natural sex based characteristics in common with women. And this, the imaginary equivalence, is deliberate. The intent is for transwomen - who can be entirely intact men - to have access to all women’s spaces and activities. This can only be detrimental to women.
*And yes, sometimes things go wrong and women can’t conceive and bear children. But that doesn’t make them not women.

I guess that takes us to the original OP. Someone biologically female who does not identify as female, whether they are non binary or transmen, are the ones accessing midwives and obstetric services. They aren’t invading a safe space, merely not wanting to be mis-gendered or using language not akin to the gender they identify with.

This is a complete and utter yawnfest. I cannot believe this is happening.

What a load of shit.

I haven’t read the full thread as I can tell the boring and stupid direction of it.

But, are you telling me that men cannot have breast cancer? Maybe we should rebrand a heart wrenching illness to chest cancer to make people feel slightly better.

Are you telling me that children cannot be breast fed by their mother? Is this now a crime against humanity as it may exclude a minute minority of people that cannot totally make a transition from male to female?

If you decide to make that change to a man or you are in fact already biologically a man surely you lose your ‘ability’ to carry said child in you uterus. Therefore you lose your right to comment on the matter of feeding your biological child from your breast. If you can still do this then woop de woop for you. Enjoy your interrupted sleep. Nipple tweaking and potential mastitis.

Plenty of capable, amazing and able male parents are happy to raise their children in a variety of circumstances that feed their child away from a chest or breast. Take adoptive parents or gay parents from a surrogate.

Please behave and stop this nonsense.

Be who you want to be. Let your children be who they want to be. Don’t create nonsense for people who are accepting and open to change.

I find cis offensive.

I am not a subset of a woman. I just am one.

This is why the TWAW mantra is so offensive. Why should women have to make way for men who identify as women and adopt a term that is imposed on them to appease those men?

It's outright misogyny. Pure and simple.

I'm more concerned about the hundreds of thousands of men around the world committing sex offences (towards men, women, and children) than the hypothetical transwoman going to a La Leche League meeting to commit a sex offence tbh.

You can rest assured that the majority of women and mothers are very concerned about this too.

user it's not about being polite and preferred pronouns.

This is about medical language.

Perinatal will replace maternity. Chest feeding replaces breastfeeding when even men have breasts. It will be pregnant people not pregnant women.

Already we are people with cervixes rather than women when it comes to Cervical Cancer Screening, this is the language used by Autism Charities even though the women and girls who need them most have a communication issue and even though people who don't speak English as a first language might miss screening because they don't know the word cervix but they do know that they are a woman.

This must stop. Lives should never be at risk to be polite to people who know that they must be women in order to give birth from a biological perspective.

Moreover, I’m more than happy to accept that midwives may decide to change their vocabulary to address the needs of their ‘patient-consumer-mother-father’ but not at the expense of the general public/mothers.

Talk to the individual don’t change to alienate the majority.

Surely that’s not offensive. Treat everyone as an individual.

@pumpkinbump

I'm more concerned about the hundreds of thousands of men around the world committing sex offences (towards men, women, and children) than the hypothetical transwoman going to a La Leche League meeting to commit a sex offence tbh.

You can rest assured that the majority of women and mothers are very concerned about this too.

Good point. We’re talking a small minority of a small minority. Apart from high profile cases, do we have data to show how big an issue it is?

not that long ago, there were people who targeted gay men and saw them as predators or paedophiles and there is a very very small minority out there who still hold this opinion. Obviously completely incorrectly but we can’t bucket a whole section of society on the actions of a few ( I’m sure merrymouse will be along in a minute to call me a homophobe again for conflating sexual orientation with sex).

They aren’t invading a safe space, merely not wanting to be mis-gendered or using language not akin to the gender they identify with.

This

Serious question how does breastfeeding misgender or be something unakin to the gender they identify when men can and do die of breast cancer?

Why is breast not a gender neutral term unless you see breasts as sexualised?

They aren’t invading a safe space, merely not wanting to be mis-gendered or using language not akin to the gender they identify with.

Men have breasts.

Breastfeeding is not akin to a gender, it's just the way female humans feed infants.

Some people believe they have an innate gender identity. Other people just want to be treated as humans who happen to be female.

If you are genuinely interested in finding out why some women find the concept of gender so troubling, this essay pretty much sums it up:

aeon.co/essays/the-idea-that-gender-is-a-spectrum-is-a-new-gender-prison

*I am genuinely curious - show of hands who thinks calling it human milk is actually going to put women off breastfeeding?

It is human milk though?
Like we say cows milk.
Or goats milk.
Unless we call it women's milk? Which I don't think we do.
We just say milk.
So no words before, just keep it as milk is good with me.*

It's breast milk, which WOMEN produce when having gone through pregnancy in order to feed their child. Yes there have been observations made of male lactation, but these cases are rare.

Cow's milk - we know this comes from female cows, same with goats milk. If farmers couldn't tell the difference and started milking male equivalents, we'd have very dry cereal!

@lifeturnsonadime

Serious question how does breastfeeding misgender or be something unakin to the gender they identify when men can and do die of breast cancer?

Why is breast not a gender neutral term unless you see breasts as sexualised?

Yea this is my question too.

I don’t see the term ‘breastfeeding’ as misgendering a trans man. It’s an accurate word for the biological act of feeding a baby breast milk.

@Mostlylurkingiam

I call BULLSHIT on this dog whistle. Frequently health care professionals do training on inclusive language, so everyone can feel more comfortable and can be open to how individuals want to express themselves. No one is forcing anyone to never say mother or breast, and no one is "erasing" women ffs!

@WhoWants2Know

I hope someone has let the supermarkets and greeting cards companies know that they need to change Mother's Day to Birthing Parents day.

Yes, TRAs are trying to get this done away with too. Father's day is of course, safe.

I am genuinely curious - show of hands who thinks calling it human milk is actually going to put women off breastfeeding?

The problem is the attempt to change language for no other reason than that it is associated with women.

Already words like transsexual, homosexual and lesbian are 'outdated' and 'oldfashioned', but losing those words and replacing them with 'queer' and 'trans' makes it less possible to describe whose rights need to be protected.

Words are important.

This policy says that the word 'breastfeeding' is disturbing, not just for a specific person struggling with a personal sense of dysphoria, but generally. We say no.

Surely you recognise that we don’t specify that it’s not calf, ewe or nanny milk. If you want to go off on a tangent I could research the names of other milk baring female creatures such as rats, lamas, dogs and cats?

Frequently health care professionals do training on inclusive language, so everyone can feel more comfortable and can be open to how individuals want to express themselves.

Nope.

You are talking about being patient focused.

This is a general diversity policy.

I think the newspapers are stirring this up unnecessarily. If you look at the actual guidelines, they mostly retain current usage but add options midwives might want to use if someone is trans.

Which seems kind of sensible, especially with Brighton's big LGBT community? Providing vocab instead of leaving it up to midwives in the heat of the moment.

I don't want to see terms like mother and woman removed but I don't see what's wrong with offering additional terms if someone doesn't see themselves that way. It's just part of treating someone who is giving birth with respect.

Barnados has done away with its 'mother of the year award' after 25 years due to TRAs arguing it is not inclusive.

There are many reasons that children may not have mothers. Sometimes they may even have two.

It doesn't mean that mothers should never be recognised because a minority may be offended with the language. And note those who were protesting were not those bereaved children with the misfortune of losing a mother but people who don't want mothers to exist.

Yes, TRAs are trying to get this done away with too. Father's day is of course, safe

Have not heard of that.
Have you a link?!
Sounds like one of those things "we can't even say Christmas anymore, we have to say Winterval!" if not.

I don't want to see terms like mother and woman removed but I don't see what's wrong with offering additional terms if someone doesn't see themselves that way.

They don't see themselves as what? A human with breasts?

I completely agree that somebody suffering from dysphoria needs to be treated sensitively, as any patient with any medical or culturally specific issues should be treated sensitively. That is the only way to deliver care. However, that is a patient issue, not a diversity issue.

If you make it into a diversity issue, you are affirming the idea that breasts are somehow a signifier of gender identity, and that is wrong. Breastfeeding AND formula feeding are so difficult for so many (all?) women. They don't need to be told their choice of words also signifies an identity.

Organisations really need to stop assuming that everyone has signed on to the concept of gender identity and start questioning what it means.

The bit of that article I read was bizarre, especially this bit:

Brighton and Sussex University Hospitals NHS Trust is the first in the country to formally implement a gender inclusive language policy for its maternity services department, which will now be known as “perinatal services”.

They’re saying this like it’s a deliberate ploy to remove the word maternity - I don’t think this journalist understands what the word perinatal means.

I agree with NiceGerbil. Women's words are being changed but nothing is said about the testes-havers.

Even if something in the shape of a vagina is fashioned for a trans woman it is still not a vagina, it is an image of one made up of material from a male. Many trans women still have penises and no surgery whatsoever. They cannot take our words to feed their inadequacies and cannot take words that belong to our bodies.

@Babdoc your information about the reason for asking about ethnicity was informative. However, do you think the question may have gone better had the Dr or other HCP had the wherewithal to caveat it with the reason why they were asking?

I recall a midwife asking me if ds2 (unborn) had the same father as DS1 whilst sitting in my drawing room, drinking my tea, looking at my dated wedding ring. How helpful it would have been to caveat it with the reason why rather than the inference that I had a lot of sex with a lot of random people. You know "I do apologise for asking but we have to know the risks for pre-eclampsia and if THE or YOUR baby (not just baby which is reductive and those v important pronouns) has a different father from your first child those risks are higher.

DS2 was planned and wanted within marriage. He died at 27 weeks. I really didn't need a midwife to question it - and certainly not in my drawing room!

That was the point where no Dr or HCP will ever, ever adopt a pally attitude with me again. It is formal and wholly respectful whether or not the PC claptrap prevails. Frankly I don't care. It is simple and basic respect to treat others as equals.

Chelsea & Crapminster 1997.