Midwives told to stop using terms such as 'breastfeeding' and 'breastmilk'

[MissMoped]

because it’s not gender inclusive language, I believe with particular reference to the transexual debate.

This is at Brighton and Sussex nhs trust btw, good to know NHS money is being spent wisely btw, poring over the “incorrect” use of language.

The word “mother” apparently should not be used on its own; instead “mother or birthing parent” (um, isn’t that a mother?).

Breast milk and breastfeeding is to be replace by “breast/chest milk” or “milk from the feeding parent”. “Woman” should be replaced with “woman or person”.

Gobsmacked.

@user1471539324

Please don’t use the word cis woman user

It’s rude and demeaning

For the love of god. I was using it to differentiate from transwomen for the clarity of my point. Surely that was obvious?

It was obvious, but it's also in the MN guidelines that people aren't to use the word.
So use something like biological male or female instead

Yes. This is 'Mumsnet'.

Um.... what has that got to do with anything lol

"Lol"

Surely you can't be that stupid.

Most of us are on Mumsnet because we are mothers. Most women find that the point at which structural, institutional sexism comes home to bite them, hard, is the point at which they become mothers.

Whether it's being sacked while you're pregnant, the double shift (treble shift even) of paid work, housework and childcare, finding your pay drifts apart from your male colleagues, more recently the disproportionate impact of covid on women - sexism is rooted in biological sex, and that becomes abundantly clear when you become a mother.

My own equal pay claim was down to a toxic combination of long pay scales and the way performance pay and maternity leave were handled.

Sex, sex, biological sex. It had nothing to do with gender - whether I presented as a girly woman or a butch woman.

If you can't see sex, if you wilfully refuse to see sex, you can't see sexism.

You can't name the problem, you can't describe the problem, you can't fight against the problem.

And you can't identify your way out of the problem either. Those transmen having babies? Those "AFAB non binary people" having babies? Sex discrimination will bite them on the arse too. Because sexist men and sexist institutions always know who to shit on from a great height, regardless of how those people describe themselves.

Here are screen shots of the BSUH language changes:

Some quick research should inform you. Google is free and widely available

I don't think you read my post. Some people prefer the term transsexual. Google is free and widely available.

Well we all know that you must be female to bear a child for starters. The clue's in the name!

Yes, but my point was not everyone on here are parents.
There's just as many who post here who aren't parents, have no interest in being parents etc.
Just because it's called Mumsnet doesn't mean it's automatically everyone must know what they're talking about as they have experience and are mums.

Yes. This is 'Mumsnet'

Um.... what has that got to do with anything lol

Surely you can't be that stupid

Well. surely you can't be that stupid that you think it's just mothers on here who have given birth?!

I despair at how far this is all going, it's complete madness.

There's just as many who post here who aren't parents, have no interest in being parents etc.

I very much doubt that's true. This is a parenting forum, predominantly to do with being a mum.

People who are not mothers are also welcome but they certainly are not equal in number to those who are.

@merrymouse

Some quick research should inform you. Google is free and widely available

I don't think you read my post. Some people prefer the term transsexual. Google is free and widely available.

I was referring to the ally training.

@Mockolate

Yes. This is 'Mumsnet'

Um.... what has that got to do with anything lol

Surely you can't be that stupid

Well. surely you can't be that stupid that you think it's just mothers on here who have given birth?!

Hence my use of the word "most."

If you struggle that much with reading comprehension, you're really going to struggle to put together any sort of coherent argument for your position.

People who are not mothers are also welcome but they certainly are not equal in number to those who are

How on earth would you even begin to know?
It's not just mums want parenting advice.
Mums
Dads
Nannies
etc and there's plenty of people who pop up to say every time a "why are people without kids/Dads posting here?" thread that say they happily just come to the board for adult chat and nothing to do with kids.
You've (general you've) got to be a bit naive if you think every one from a "gender critical" stance on here automatically is a mum and is coming at it from a parenting view.

I was referring to the ally training.

Unfortunately 'ally' training doesn't always present a full range of viewpoints - particularly if it confuses trans and intersex, quotes the Fausto Sterling statistic or talks about Genderbread people.

I know because I've been on the forums for a long time under various user names.

Most of the GC critical voices on here absolutely are mothers or grandmothers.

I have not said that I ''automatically' think anyone is a mother. I agree with Cara, your comprehension skills are lacking if that is what you have gleaned when I have said that I disagree that there are equal numbers of non mothers on a site called MUMSNET.

For the love of god. I was using it to differentiate from transwomen for the clarity of my point.

For clarity:

Women = women
Transwomen = transwomen

That’s all the clarity you need.

@Mockolate

People who are not mothers are also welcome but they certainly are not equal in number to those who are

How on earth would you even begin to know?
It's not just mums want parenting advice.
Mums
Dads
Nannies
etc and there's plenty of people who pop up to say every time a "why are people without kids/Dads posting here?" thread that say they happily just come to the board for adult chat and nothing to do with kids.
You've (general you've) got to be a bit naive if you think every one from a "gender critical" stance on here automatically is a mum and is coming at it from a parenting view.

Honestly, I think you are kidding yourself if you think the Mumsnet demographic isn't mothers. There are obviously specific boards that attract a wider readership, but I doubt that the ticktock generation are hanging out here. It's very obvious that posters are majority female, and after a certain age, most women have had children.

It's not as though Reddit and twitter don't exist. The USP of this website is information for mothers.

Anyway you are derailing this discussion.

As a mother I do not consent to the removal of the words that I use to describe myself by stealth to appease a tiny minority of people.

I worry about the impact of that on women in generations that follow us. If the language we use to protect our sex based rights are removed then we open ourselves up to discrimination on a level that we have been lucky enough not to see because the generations of women before us sought to protect us.

We lose our safe spaces, our access to healthcare is reduced because the inclusive language is removed and public health messages will likely be lost to those with English as a second languages, those with learning difficulties and those who are not so fortunate to have a good biological education to understand the words for all of our body parts. We lose our rights to equal pay if women who were socialised as men are included in the statistics. Crime rates will be skewed so it looks like women commit more sexual and violent crimes than we do. We will lost women's places for political and business representation to women who were socialised as men. There will be more I haven't mentioned.

I absolutely believe that every trans person should be protected at law from discrimination and harassment but this is not at the expense of women's rights.

Maybe MNHQ has some idea of their demographics. I'll report this post and ask, shall I?

Dear MNHQ, can you settle a simple question please?

A There's just as many who post here who aren't parents, have no interest in being parents etc.

Or
B ^ I very much doubt that's true. This is a parenting forum, predominantly to do with being a mum.

People who are not mothers are also welcome but they certainly are not equal in number to those who are.^

Well. surely you can't be that stupid that you think it's just mothers on here who have given birth?!

Uh?

The USP of this website is information for mothers

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree then, as a lot of people use MN who aren't mums.
The tagline even is "by parents, for parents."
Anyone posts here, whether for advice or entertainment, not just mums.

@borntobequiet
I would quite happily describe myself as Cis in the right context, though it’s very rarely necessary. I’m thinking about it from an etymological and descriptive perspective I suppose.

@ErrolTheDragon

* Maybe we should be lobbying for a name change then. Not very inclusive to the non-mothers reading the public forum. *

But you see, it actually is inclusive, (anyone is welcome, who can abide by its guidelines) while retaining a name that represents its primary demographic.

Indeed Errol

I just don’t understand the self centred meeeness of it all

As someone who can’t have children, I wouldn’t come on mumsnet & demand it changed its name to womannet or peoplenet so that I don’t feel excluded.

It’s quite obvious by the name what it’s primary demographic is

@Biscuitsanddoombar

It was a joke. 🤣🤣🤣

Reading all this complete b*llocks gives me a headache.

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree then, as a lot of people use MN who aren't mums.

A lot of people use Mumsnet. A lot of them aren't mothers. The majority are women. The majority are mothers.

This is one of the things that you learn as you grow older. Being a mother isn't a niche hobby for people who like Bugaboos. Most women have children. This isn't a mark of virtue or value. It's just the way species reproduce. Roughly 80% of women have 2.4 children and the population almost sustains itself. Because of that women need specific rights. Before the establishment of a rights based legal framework, women were regarded as property. In some countries women still are. The only thing we have to protect our rights is words.

As someone who can’t have children, I wouldn’t come on mumsnet & demand it changed its name to womannet or peoplenet so that I don’t feel excluded.

The female experience of not being able to have children is as much a marker of sex as the female experience of having children. We can't escape either.