Midwives told to stop using terms such as 'breastfeeding' and 'breastmilk'

[MissMoped]

because it’s not gender inclusive language, I believe with particular reference to the transexual debate.

This is at Brighton and Sussex nhs trust btw, good to know NHS money is being spent wisely btw, poring over the “incorrect” use of language.

The word “mother” apparently should not be used on its own; instead “mother or birthing parent” (um, isn’t that a mother?).

Breast milk and breastfeeding is to be replace by “breast/chest milk” or “milk from the feeding parent”. “Woman” should be replaced with “woman or person”.

Gobsmacked.

I’m interested in learning more about what extent the groups overlap.

You are using the misleading Fausto Sterling statistic that includes any disorder of sexual development. The figure you need is 0.018%.

On the other hand, 0.018% might well be the proportion of people who fit into a binary gender category, because that classification is just formalised sexism.

So yes, I would guess that 100% of the people in any statistic you use might not have a binary gender, because who does?

non binary as nonsense

...which it is, in relation to sex, because sex is binary. Gender? Of course you can call yourself non-binary, though goodness knows what it actually means.

I personally think your view is only borne through ignorance and privilege but there you go

But you haven’t thought about the subject
enough to explain why have you?

When my parents were young, being gay was taboo. When I was young, it was being trans that was taboo.

Conflation of gay and trans is based on a homophobic concept of being gay.

Surely if you're having a baby and you're a trans man your mind is already blown? So some midwife calling your chest your breasts would be the least of your worries, given that you're about to have - or have just had - a baby come out of your sadly-quite-feminine vagina.

It's hilarious that someone out there could be offended by the word breast in relation to breastfeeding. Surely not? I mean, honestly!!

When I was young, it was being trans that was taboo

I don’t know when you were young, but I knew transsexual people in the 1970s and it wasn’t “taboo”. I worked with one in a chip shop in Portsmouth. Gay men seemed to have a more difficult time then.
It was very expensive to transition though, you had to go abroad, and of course hormonal treatments were not as sophisticated.

I think their intentions in large, are good and in the right direction to foster inclusiveness.

Given that the impact is to herd women into a gender box by implying that breastfeeding is innately linked to your identity, that is very difficult to believe.

The best that can be said is that they just didn’t think.

I’m taking about acceptance of the LGBTQ community. I understand that within that community there are certain factions discontent with being lumped together as one group.

Though internalised misogyny is something that we all have to deal with in our lives, I just don’t think this is an example of it. There’s really no need to be so hostile.

I nearly didn't open this thread, in fact I probably shouldn't have. I can feel my blood pressure rising, my heart has started to race, and my breathing is becoming more and more laboured. How can this tsunami of absolute ridiculousness be stopped before it reaches impossible heights?

I feel as a woman that my identity as female is being slowly erased by these types of things. I don't mind if anyone wants to go by whatever pronouns they like. But I am a she, I produce milk from my breasts and when on a labour ward I expect to be treated as my identity which is female!!!!

@borntobequiet

When I was young, it was being trans that was taboo

I don’t know when you were young, but I knew transsexual people in the 1970s and it wasn’t “taboo”. I worked with one in a chip shop in Portsmouth. Gay men seemed to have a more difficult time then.
It was very expensive to transition though, you had to go abroad, and of course hormonal treatments were not as sophisticated.

I grew up in the north of Scotland. It was taboo to go to the cinema on a Sunday so trans people were the source of much pearl clutching.

While I think the term chest feeding is odd and potentially a misstep, I think their intentions in large, are good and in the right direction to foster inclusiveness.

It's not just odd but totally inaccurate. As for the right direction to foster inclusiveness it misses by a mile. The word breast is inclusive as everybody has breasts. To exclude its use implies that there is something wrong with a body part because some breasts can be fetishized by men. It is an example of rampant misogyny!!!!!

@borntobequiet

The word safe has become fairly meaningless and increasingly used as a sort of symbolic security blanket in contexts where there is no real danger or difficulty to be safe from.

Yes, a sort of 'shielding' from reality one might say.

@Littlepaws18

I’m absolutely certain that they would treat you with the same respect and call you the pronouns of your choosing and use the language of your choosing.

There’s really no need to be so hostile.

If you want politeness, please don’t say that posters standing up for women are privileged.

My impression is that you haven’t thought much about this subject and are therefore speaking from a disadvantaged position - that’s fine - lots of people haven’t thought about this. (The Fausto sterling stat is a bit of a give away - it’s often incorrectly used, but how would you know that?)

However please don’t assume that other posters are speaking from a position of prejudice rather than experience and knowledge.

It was taboo to go to the cinema on a Sunday so trans people were the source of much pearl clutching.

The trans people liked Sunday cinema?

But I am a she, I produce milk from my breasts and when on a labour ward I expect to be treated as my identity which is female!!!!

Yes, which is why it says that the language will be taliored to suit each individual.
So they're not forcing you to be called something you're not.
You'd have your preferred terms. just like trans men would.
So there's no reason not to expect appropriate language round you?

I can feel my blood pressure rising, my heart has started to race, and my breathing is becoming more and more laboured.

Are you sure you’re not having a baby?

I’m absolutely certain that they would treat you with the same respect and call you the pronouns of your choosing and use the language of your choosing.

Doesn’t work that way for women. Language can’t take away the impact of sex or sexism.

Enforced pronoun usage won’t stop you needing maternity leave - or people thinking you might go on maternity leave - or leaking milk at work or any of the other things that everyone knows only happen to women.

All we have is clear language to protect our rights and that is being removed.

So there's no reason not to expect appropriate language round you?

But then you have to ask why are trans patients not deserving of the same level of care as everyone else. Why staff are prepared to risk mix ups ?

Chest pain
Cheat infection

They mean cometary different things to " baby bit her nipple " and mastitis.

Why is it ok that care can be compromised for trans patients. Its not inclusive or kind its dangerous

@borntobequiet

It was taboo to go to the cinema on a Sunday so trans people were the source of much pearl clutching.

The trans people liked Sunday cinema?

just setting the scene of a rather insulated, bigoted place.

So there's no reason not to expect appropriate language round you?

But the concept of ‘chestfeeding’ isn’t just appropriate for some people and not others, it intrinsically implies that breasts signify gender identity and that men don’t have them.

Obviously HCPs should use any word a patient wants one to one, but the two terms are not equal at a general level.

just setting the scene of a rather insulated, bigoted place

Oh OK. I recognise that from the 1950s...we have something in common...

You'd have your preferred terms. just like trans men would.

Transmen and men have breasts so why on earth is breast feeding not appropriate for them?

I don't think it will be just about what you want to be called at all, though I realise the policy says it is in addition to, not in place of 'mother'.

This woman didn't have her preferences respected, even the language she chose was policed and this was in a medical/mental health setting.

metro.co.uk/2018/01/14/woman-who-feared-men-accused-of-transphobia-after-objecting-to-hospital-room-with-trans-woman-7227597/

The policy will be just the beginning sadly, they want to accommodate a tiny percentage of people who have very real, biological reasons to be on a Labour ward or to receive maternal care, so if this is to appease them and in doing so it excludes others, this is the thin end of the wedge.

It's really not going to stop there, it's not like it isn't already everywhere else where women and female biology is concerned.
It's already gone through the BMA and too many other examples to list...and this is just one NHS Trust, how many others will bow to pressure and follow their lead?

If I read the document correctly, it says that 'the language will be taliored to suit each individual' on a one to one, but for general purpose the alternatives are given as the additive language.

We all want all mothers of whatever gender to be care for as close to their wishes as possible.

The trick is that after a while the additive language will take over. It is like grooming, a little at a time until it is normalised.

On the doc: The British Medical Association recommends “pregnant people” instead of “expectant mothers”.'

It also says on the document that they are 'promoting the additive use of gender-neutral language in traditionally woman-centric movements (birth and reproductive justice) because doing so disrupts those systems and supports gender liberation"

It has an impact on women not so keen on being known as ‘birthing parent’. So there is an agenda that goes beyond making a few trans masculine happy.