Midwives told to stop using terms such as 'breastfeeding' and 'breastmilk'

[MissMoped]

because it’s not gender inclusive language, I believe with particular reference to the transexual debate.

This is at Brighton and Sussex nhs trust btw, good to know NHS money is being spent wisely btw, poring over the “incorrect” use of language.

The word “mother” apparently should not be used on its own; instead “mother or birthing parent” (um, isn’t that a mother?).

Breast milk and breastfeeding is to be replace by “breast/chest milk” or “milk from the feeding parent”. “Woman” should be replaced with “woman or person”.

Gobsmacked.

It’s like a privileged white male complaining that he’s being discriminated against by giving women/LGBT/POC equality.

No, it's like a privileged white man telling women to get back into their box and not talk about their disgusting bodies.

If you can't get worked up about this it can only be because of privilege.

The world has truly gone mad.

@redpencil77

Clearly you don’t know much about non-binary. I suggest you read up on it, far from it being a ‘nonsense’, being biologically intersex affects roughly 0.5-1.5% of the population. Some of these people never find out they are intersex because they have the sexual organs they are expected to have, but chromosomal testing has shown this to be true in studies of large populations.

Now think about being biologically intersex and identifying with the opposite gender to your sex organs. Sex organs are not the be all and end all to determining gender.

Thing i really don’t understand is when a number of posters have pointed out that this is not happening to the word MAN, there is not one comment from all those talking of ‘inclusion’

I quite like fairness...if this was happening across the board id probably just shrug and move on

But its not...why?

Clearly you don’t know much about non-binary. I suggest you read up on it, far from it being a ‘nonsense’, being biologically intersex affects roughly 0.5-1.5% of the population.

You are very confused, but you do clearly illustrate the lack of knowledge that is behind so many confident assertions.

Does somebody else want to explain?

Still nothing on whether Brighton are going to rename vaginal delivery- surely this is a much greater issue than breast feeding, as both male & female humans have breasts, whereas vaginal is horribly binary (sarcasm intended).
Is there any data on the number of trans females giving birth a year? (please note I use the term trans females as trans men excludes females who are trans but do not identify as men) Given the tiny number who have gone for a gender recognition certificate, I'd expect it to be very low.

To clarify my point above, some people are diagnosed as intersex when a girl who is externally female has undescended testicles, and vice versa. But there is also a subset of population with a complete set of one sex organs but has different, intersex chromosomes

Clearly you don’t know much about non-binary. I suggest you read up on it, far from it being a ‘nonsense’, being biologically intersex affects roughly 0.5-1.5% of the population

The 1.5% figure comes from artificially inflating the figures by including conditions like hypospadias which are not DSDs.

And many intersex people have asked not to have their medical conditions co-opted by trans activists who want to use them for political point scoring.

Maybe you need to do a bit more reading, numbered-user.

@merrymouse, I know non binary is different to intersex, I’m illustrating a point that some people who are non-binary or gender dysmorphic may have a biological reason for doing so. Not just a choice like previously indicated, as if it were becoming vegan.

Haven't read the whole thread, but is this hospital also changing the names dor other female body parts that are used and mentiones during pregnancy and birth? e.g. vagina, uterus, cervix......

Plus the bulk of people who identify as non-binary are genotypically and phenotypically normal (in the statistical sense) members of their birth sex.

User non binary is a gender identity that has nothing to do with being intersex (although some intersex people may identify as being non binary).

Obviously there is a large margin of error around the figures, which is why I included it as a range.

I’m aware of the many arguments and issues within the community, but I think it’s important to highlight that it’s not just a fad made up of mentally imbalanced people like previous posters have inferred.

Haven't read the whole thread but when I explained to DH that by terms set out by Brighton and Hove's NHS Trust that he would be called Second Biological Parent so to be 'inclusive' he said "I'm not having that."

And that's pretty much how I feel about Birthing Parent.

I was a mother before I gave birth, during and after. Are you just parent after the birth has taken place and you're not 'birthing' anyone once the baby is outside of your body?

By all means ask your midwife to call you whatever you want but a blanket ban or blanket change on language we all know and understand isn't inclusive, it is the opposite.

This could go round in a big circle, I reckon we're about halfway, almost at the peak of the mountain before we head back down again.

Importantly - most people with disorders of sexual development (not intersex, that's not the term they prefer) object to being used as pawns in this game.
Most trans or NB people do not have a DSD, so the two are not linked

@CaraDuneRedux

Plus the bulk of people who identify as non-binary are genotypically and phenotypically normal (in the statistical sense) members of their birth sex.

Do you have a citation for this? I’m interested in learning more about what extent the groups overlap.

Differences of Sexual Differentiation are irrelevant to this discussion. Unless you've had a mastectomy, you have breast tissue. Females have breasts, and so do
males. Your gender identity does not change this aspect of basic human anatomy. Nor does it change the fact that only post-pubertal human females can get pregnant, give birth & breastfeed. Breastfeeding is a sex specific term not because of the 'breast' part, but because of the 'feeding' aspect. Males have breasts but cannot feed a baby.

@merrymouse

It’s like a privileged white male complaining that he’s being discriminated against by giving women/LGBT/POC equality.

No, it's like a privileged white man telling women to get back into their box and not talk about their disgusting bodies.

If you can't get worked up about this it can only be because of privilege.

No, I’ve just heard the same argument being used by those who protest against equality. I can’t get worked up by others being included in language. It’s an addition not a replacement?

So tell me why I’m privileged and you’re not then?

All research indicates that there is absolutely no link between people with DSDs and being transgender or non binary.

www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/trgh.2017.0051

Haven't read the whole thread so don't know if this has been mentioned already, but Brighton and Sussex NHS are also the trust that published a rape victim's letter requesting a same-sex medic perform her mammogram as an example of transphobia, describing it as "highly discriminatory" correspondence which should be referred to the hospital's equality and diversity team.

Article here

Their 'apology' is not worth the paper it's written on. I feel for anyone treated by this hospital - their views have gone beyond trying-to-be-trendy woke-ism to genuinely frightening 1984-esque Newspeak. They haven't just drunk the Kool-Aid - they're swimming in it.

Thanks @334bu
It’s a small sample size but it still pretty interesting and I’m sure we will see more work in the area in the coming years.

Again, apologies if it came across like I was using non binary and intersex interchangeably, not the case but I found it infuriating that some posters were dismissing non binary as nonsense when there is so much that is unexplained and unaccounted due to limited research.

It’s an addition not a replacement?

There is only a need for an addition if it is agreed that the word ‘breast’ is in some way disturbing.

So tell me why I’m privileged and you’re not then?

Privileged ignorance and misogyny (internalised or other), are the only possible reasons for not understanding why it’s so important to use accurate, neutral words when talking about women’s bodies.

By the way just as men and women have breasts do does anyone who identifies as non binary or trans .Therefore , there is absolutely no reason to change breast feeding to the inaccurate insulting "chest feeding"

No, I’ve just heard the same argument being used by those who protest against equality

You can’t dismiss an argument by quoting the use of a similar argument in a different context, though it seems to be quite popular in these discussions. It’s a subtle form of whataboutery. Once you’ve seen it once, it’s very obvious.

While I think the term chest feeding is odd and potentially a misstep, I think their intentions in large, are good and in the right direction to foster inclusiveness.

@merrymouse
I personally think your view is only borne through ignorance and privilege but there you go. I want to see diversity and inclusion in society and I think though at some points, changes are made clumsily, we are heading in a positive direction.

When my parents were young, being gay was taboo. When I was young, it was being trans that was taboo. When my kids are growing up I hope they are even more inclusive than I ever was.