Midwives told to stop using terms such as 'breastfeeding' and 'breastmilk'

[MissMoped]

because it’s not gender inclusive language, I believe with particular reference to the transexual debate.

This is at Brighton and Sussex nhs trust btw, good to know NHS money is being spent wisely btw, poring over the “incorrect” use of language.

The word “mother” apparently should not be used on its own; instead “mother or birthing parent” (um, isn’t that a mother?).

Breast milk and breastfeeding is to be replace by “breast/chest milk” or “milk from the feeding parent”. “Woman” should be replaced with “woman or person”.

Gobsmacked.

@PurpleHoodie

Blue I feel the same.

Body dysmorphia is real. Very real.

But females banging on about giving birth AND being masculine AND Social Media 'banging the fuck on posts' AND Mainstream Media TV appearances = narcissistic grifty vibe.

Masculine women give birth ALL THE TIME. And just crack on being mums. As best they can. Whatever their style. Whatever their sexuality.

Narcissistic grifting indeed, Purple.

What a load of bollocks

So is this something that should be treated surgically or as a mental health issue?

I think gender dysphoria was removed from the mental health category ( happy to be corrected on this) but

Charities that advocate for trans people say its not about being born in the wrong body. Or stereotypes.

The nhs list of criteria of gender dysphoria requires 6 out of 8 to be checked off.

When you remove the ones that refer to stereotypes or wrong body style references there are not enough left to qualify ( get the 6)

So we have children being treated medically for something that no one can clearly define.

"Chest feeding" is first of all totally inaccurate as the anatomy part used is the breast, a body part shared by both males and females.
It is also highly offensive as it seems to imply having breasts is intrinsically distasteful.

Nanny0gg

I personally am so open minded with my lifestyle as to believe it should be - cosmetically (as in make-up NOT surgically) AND that everyone should stay in their own lane

i.e dress how you want on a night out (as feminine or masculine as you want) but you stay in your sex appropriate areas.

So on an adult night out, men can dress as feminine as they want, but must use male designated areas for privacy reasons.

Men need to accept feminine men and transsexuals into THEIR areas.

All languages need to reflect and accept this.

(Transgenderists don't hence calling transsexuals 'Truscum') True. Scum.

And therefore yes.

Correct language is breast feeding.

It is just so correct.

I don't know how many transmen give birth every year, but in 2017 318 people were granted a Gender Recognition certificate.

Roughly 350 men in the UK get breast cancer every year. Why are they being told by Brighton and Sussex Hospital Trust that it's 'inclusive' to have a policy that implies that breasts are uniquely feminine? That they indicate something about identity?

No one seems to know how many transmen give birth each year in the UK and how many of those go on to breastfeed.

It would not surprise me at all if it were in single digits.

Haven’t read the full thread yet (livid by the end of p1), but interesting point re breast cancer in males and this being absolutely accurate and “inclusive” enough for actual bollock-havers.

It just confirms to me it’s more about the linguistic degradation, humiliation and dehumanisation of women rather than having an altruistic purpose for hypothetical feelings of an extremely sensitive few individuals.

Certainly apropos anything pertaining to “breast” becoming “chest” cannot be justified by inclusivity.

Not when men get breast cancer and it is termed as such without any question.

Quite frankly, if you’re about to give birth, but can’t accept the fact that -whether you like it or not - you’re about to become a mother and if you plan to breastfeed, if you can’t even hear it termed as such, instead demanding the whole language in a blanket fashion is being moulded only to appease you, then that to me doesn’t seem like a solid mental state in any way. It’s gobsmacking that this is a “thing” that’s been adopted. 🤬🤬🤬🤬

@borntobequiet

From th Guardian link above: The patient had taken hormone therapy for six years, but had not had gender reassignment or breast augmentation before she approached doctors. Reisman and Goldstein used a framework known to induce lactation in cisgender women who had not experienced a pregnancy to promote the patient’s lactation. So the patient was an intact male, albeit taking female hormones. The patient took a gradually increasing regimen of the female hormones progesterone and estradiol, stimulated her chest with a breast milk pump, and took domperidone, a nausea medication known to increase milk production. Domperidone is used internationally but it is not approved in the US, because in some intravenous instances it produced cardiac arrhythmias, cardiac arrest and sudden death. Doctors said the case shows “modest but functional lactation can be induced in transgender women”. In other words, not enough milk is produced to nourish a baby. Breastfeeding women are not usually encouraged to take unnecessary medication, in fact most are reluctant to do anything that might cause harm to the child. Which prompts the question: why do this?

@JorisBohnson2 Cant they give men hormones to chest feed now or something ? Disvlaimer: I'm no expert

Love quoting myself...the above is a response to a link @00100001 posted to this Guardian article:
www.theguardian.com/science/2018/feb/14/transgender-woman-breastfeed-health

I think many people are assuming this is being driven by the need to include trans men.
It is not. It is driven - loudly and aggressively - by straight, middle class white women who have decided to be non binary.
They then wave the trans flag and demand inclusivity. Their friends (who also wish to be special snowflakes but secretly know it's nonsense) join in the shouting down. I see it day in day out working in that world.

Don't be baffled by the idea of trans men getting their head around pregnancy, they are vanishingly rare, and frankly I think of them as traumatised women, in the same way as I would be extra sensitive to an anorexic woman having trouble with her body around pregnancy.

It's all about the straight women who want to be unusual, not like those nasty ordinary mumsy women.

RockCrushesLizard

I see it day in day out working in that world.

Out of interest, are you seeing this as a midwife when you say you are working in that world?

by straight, middle class white women who have decided to be non binary

How do you presume to know if someone just "decided" to be non binary?
Do you say the same to those who are white and middle class and just (by your reasoning) "decide" to be gay?

@Mockolate

by straight, middle class white women who have decided to be non binary

How do you presume to know if someone just "decided" to be non binary?
Do you say the same to those who are white and middle class and just (by your reasoning) "decide" to be gay?

What other explanations are there for this nonsense?

How do you presume to know if someone just "decided" to be non binary?
Do you say the same to those who are white and middle class and just (by your reasoning) "decide" to be gay?

Being gay involves action - being attracted to people of the opposite sex. It is as indisputable as a preference for chocolate or a dislike of Brussel sprouts.

'Non-binary' is a philosophical position based on the assumption that there is a link between cultural expectations of sex (women wear high heels?, women should not be educated?)- and innate identity.

Others believe that it is harmful to categorise people in that way.

Philosophical positions can be chosen.

People do not choose gender dysphoria. They do choose to view the world through the prism of gender identity.

@MissMoped

because it’s not gender inclusive language, I believe with particular reference to the transexual debate.

This is at Brighton and Sussex nhs trust btw, good to know NHS money is being spent wisely btw, poring over the “incorrect” use of language.

The word “mother” apparently should not be used on its own; instead “mother or birthing parent” (um, isn’t that a mother?).

Breast milk and breastfeeding is to be replace by “breast/chest milk” or “milk from the feeding parent”. “Woman” should be replaced with “woman or person”.

Gobsmacked.

I'm gobsmacked too.

What kind of a bunch of woke-ridden fuckwits came up with that ridiculous idea?

@NiceGerbil

Hmmm

I had a look at the document.

So far they have mentioned that women are often marginalised in healthcare

And while they say this

'We also recognise that there is currently biological essentialism and transphobia present
within elements of mainstream birth narratives and discourse'

They also say this

'Please note that these language changes do not apply when discussing or caring for
individuals in a one-on-one capacity where language and documentation should reflect
the gender identity of the individual. When caring for cis women it is good practice to
use terminology that is meaningful and appropriate to the individual; this may include
terms such as woman, mother or breastfeeding.'

I really wish people would be a bit more circumspect with this stuff. It's not nearly as bad as OP makes out. They say they take an additive approach- so pregnant women and people. Type thing.

Let's not get people riled up over half a story.

When the NHS main website says 8 out of 10 people under 40 get pregnant in a year of having unprotected sex, then there's really no need to do this. There enough ludicrous stuff out there not to worry!

Cis women is not 'good practice'. Many women do not like an adjective being added to describe the 'type' of woman they are. Personally I utterly object to being treated this way - a sub-set of women. WOMEN. Not non-men, not cis women. WOMEN.

[quote CaptainCabinets]@MissMoped I wouldn’t say I’m a ‘trans lobbyist’, but I do like to make people feel as safe, comfortable and respected as I can, especially when they are in my care.[/quote]
hmm, respected etc yes. But 'safe' is an interesting word. What does it mean in this context that respected and comfortable doesn't?
Transpeople feeling 'safe' is a phrase that is bandied around a lot - what does it actually mean to feel 'safe'?

Diana Thomas a Transwoman who writes in Daily Telegraph also is not impressed:
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/02/10/forcing-midwives-say-chestfeeding-can-undermine-trans-rights/

@Anotherdayanotherdollar

Not gender inclusive?? Women have breasts... Men have breasts...

I quite agree. Both sexes have breast tissue so breastfeeding is fine. (If some individuals want to refer to what they do as chest feeding that’s also fine and up to them).

Also some trans women can and have had lactation induced and some trans men do breastfeed.

Don’t see what the problem is. It’s breast milk and breastfeeding for all!

It's not nearly as bad as OP makes out.

Unfortunately it is.

As PP says, 'Cis' is very offensive and should not be used in any official document.

'Breastfeeding' and 'mother' are not statements of identity. It's very important that these can exist as medical and legal terms that are completely neutral.

Obviously to give every patient the best care, appropriate language should be used for that patient, but 'additive language' is not a neutral concept. It implies that there is something wrong with the existing language.

The only way that this is appropriate is if it is specific guidance for a specific group of people because of medical need. However, because it has been introduced as part of a diversity policy that does not seem to be the case.

@MissMoped

because it’s not gender inclusive language, I believe with particular reference to the transexual debate.

This is at Brighton and Sussex nhs trust btw, good to know NHS money is being spent wisely btw, poring over the “incorrect” use of language.

The word “mother” apparently should not be used on its own; instead “mother or birthing parent” (um, isn’t that a mother?).

Breast milk and breastfeeding is to be replace by “breast/chest milk” or “milk from the feeding parent”. “Woman” should be replaced with “woman or person”.

Gobsmacked.

You realise that transsexual is outdated language, yes? I can’t get worked up about this at all. Being more inclusive does not detract from your freedom. It does not erase women. It’s like a privileged white male complaining that he’s being discriminated against by giving women/LGBT/POC equality.

The word safe has become fairly meaningless and increasingly used as a sort of symbolic security blanket in contexts where there is no real danger or difficulty to be safe from.