For thinking what's the fucking point anymore?

[SapphireSeptember]

"You shouldn't say that because you don't know what people are going though!"
Which is what a woman said to me when I asked her to pull up her mask yesterday. Right back at you. How the fuck does she think me and my colleagues feel having to deal with Covidiots like her on a daily basis? (I work in a supermarket.) She had her nose sticking out and kept pulling her mask away from her face, but because she's struggling and trying her best (so am I) that makes it acceptable? She didn't say she was exempt, and honestly if you're wearing a mask wear the damned thing properly! I then overheard her say 'How dare she say that to me?" to one of my colleagues in a really angry voice. I couldn't have been more fucking polite about it if I'd tried!
(I wish I'd said what I was thinking, that I dare because I'm more scared of getting Covid and dying from it than I am of shitty customers, but that might not have helped.)
I'm getting to the stage where I just want to lock myself in my house and refuse to come out until this is all over. I'm having panic attacks, my mental health is shot, and I don't feel like I can do this anymore. I'm also autistic and find certain things hard to cope with. The only reason I go to work is because I work with some lovely people who are keeping me sane at the moment.

Added to that the two women I was working with yesterday were agreeing with her. I spoke to my manager who confirmed I'd done the right thing, and when I told them that they got shirty with me too.

Then there was the fuckwit I dealt with on Friday. Again, I asked him to pull his mask up over his nose. "I don't think so' he said, and pulled one of those sunflower lanyards out of his shirt. Apparently he's exempt because he's autistic, but chooses to wear a mask. (See above, I was also standing next to a colleague of mine who's autistic.) I couldn't quite believe it, either wear one or don't, they don't work if your nose is sticking out, he was with a young woman who was wearing hers properly and another bloke who also had his nose sticking out. (I've noticed in my area it's men who are more likely to want to share their germs with everyone else.)

Then there are the people who walk in without wearing one at all, I was doing my shopping after work and three people, not a mask among them. I asked them if they had masks, the two women pulled theirs out and the bloke said he didn't have one, but of course he didn't bother going to where we keep the spare ones, he just carried on walking along. Twat.

Look, I made masks in April - when I was at Covid anxiety peak AND believed that masks made a difference. But, in supermarkets, they really don't. The evidence has always been poor in favour of public mask wearing to protect against the spread of viruses.

eg see this study from a few years ago where the results include the statement "Penetration of cloth masks by particles was almost 97% and medical masks 44%" 'bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577?fbclid=IwAR1eSycUvJj_dy8CeGpVOkLzT53HJhr7HWv2VYj9bVXxdVedx167Y8te2Y0

I get that some people working in shops are still really anxious (although I imagine your immunity must be pretty good by now if you've worked all the way through). But stressing about other people not wearing a mask and judging them on how they are not wearing a mask 'properly' is not helpful for your own mental health.

The masks are a crutch and a distraction.

I would suggest if shop workers feel unprotected, then they should ask to have more protection eg additional face shields/plastic screens etc, work in an area that has fewer members of the public passing. This won't be forever.

I've worked in many shops. Shop workers are there to serve and to provide a service. Customer service is part of the deal. Let someone else have the job if you don't want it.

bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577?fbclid=IwAR1eSycUvJj_dy8CeGpVOkLzT53HJhr7HWv2VYj9bVXxdVedx167Y8te2Y0

perhaps a better link

@Annabell80

I didn't say if you can't wear a mask. I said if you don't want to wear a mask. Two different things.

But it isn't for you to police or judge, is it?

No but unless you are putting your life at risk for a minimum wage job then you probably won't understand why it upsets and stresses me out
Although thinking about it we have recently been told we can question why people aren't wearing a mask. I don't though because I have seen my colleagues being screamed at, threatened and even spat at.
I'd ask about working around less customers but it's a supermarket so that might be a difficult request.

OP YANBU

Shame on anyone who goes through the world with so little consideration for others. Of course people should properly wear masks in public spaces during a deadly pandemic.

It's not fair that you are incurring additional and avoidable risk just because people are lazy, ignorant and selfish.

To the PP who asked if I would be happy to wear a mask forever - yes, if it saved lives I would. Just as I am happy to wear a seatbelt, abstain from drink driving, not throw my waste into the street. There are things we do as a society to protect each other and because we are not complete arseholes. Because some things are more important than doing whatever feels comfortable to us at any given moment.

All this "people are trying their best" sentiment is utter crap. If you cant bear to wear a mask correctly whilst in a shop then dont go in...and im not talking about people who are genuinely exempt.

I agree with you... I also think people who are "genuinely exempt" need to start using home deliveries and curb-side click and collect.

I used to think people were trying their best etc etc but actually it's ridiculous now. If you can't wear a mask there are other ways to shop.

This was what tipped me over the edge (and 10k comments in agreement that people just need to put a mask on or stay out the fucking shop).

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/lcoiei/17yostandsshergrounddagainstcanadiannkaren/?utmsource=share&utmmmedium=iosapp&utmm_name=iossmf

I agree @nevernotagain If people are genuinely unable to wear a mask then they need to stay out of stores.

That video is so frustrating. That poor 17 year old shouldn't have to stand there debating for her workplace to be safe.

You deserve a medal op.

And if there is nobody else?

(re - "no mask no entry - get someone else to do your shopping")
I can't speak for France but German news isn't full of people dying of starvation because they couldn't get their shopping done. And here there is a no-mask, no-entry policy.

There are organisations delivering shopping (in a country that, for the most part, doesn't have supermarket deliveries). Also all supermarket check-out staff are masked up and behind perspex screens, as are all other counter staff workers. Shop floor staff usually ask people if they can keep their distance when they're stacking shelves... amazingly people do that for them.

I wonder when the UK turned into what sounds like (from reading here and twitter) a nation of selfish gits?

news.sky.com/story/how-covid-conspiracists-and-anti-vaxxers-are-getting-organised-and-making-money-12206707

Thank goodness there are some real life normal model citizens remaining in Britain that have an understanding of the science of super spreading and mutating pandemic including risk mitigation measures saving the many not just pandering to the few snowflakes and own goal criminal legal loophole exemption abusers. Only in the UK can there be criminal legal exemption and so carte blanche to continue untested asymptomatic mutating super spreading without care nor guilt!

The minority reckless and selfish non mask wearing non believers are evidently using the remaining open retail outlets to socialise and spread their virus and germs. Unfortunately many retail staff also from my increasingly rare jaunts to the shops on their side despite their legal rights as shop keeper hosts on private property to accept and eject unlawful visitors and can't be bothered to wear masks too and so go unchallenged and unpunished despite criminal laws. Obviously like all those that use shared hop on hop off high throughput mass public transportation - they are obviously claiming "exemption" from criminal record (not scientifically exempt from infection incubation and super spreading). I wonder why the pandemic is mutating and super spreading so rapidly to already kill 0.1m plus with less health privilege?

Here is an article which sums up this lot nicely as this is a special British case of stupidity a sort of British entitlement culture. Why being British can mean self righteous fake woke-ism. It makes unfortunate alarming reading but sums up our unique British pandemic mess and forevermore extended lockdowns nicely.

@Menual

It's just excuse after excuse.

"We don't use shops that deliver"

Then change your shop temporarily to a shop that delivers.

"I have a panic attack if anything goes near my face"

So you'd refuse an oxygen mask on a plane, yes? You'll refuse a ventilator in hospital, yes? If the answers to both are indeed yes, then get a face shield. If the answer is no but you still won't wear a mask, then get a face shield.

"I get so short of breath and feel like I'm going to pass out"

Then in the kindest way possible I hope you never catch covid... you'd think a person who describes such severe symptoms after the simple act of covering their face with a thin piece of cloth would be doing absolutely everything possible not to catch it. Apparently not.

"I have sensory issues"

I have sympathy... get a friend / family / neighbour to shop for you or use click and collect or home delivery services.

None of these excuses mean you won't spread the virus. None at all. So you think your health issue (which in many cases is valid) trumps the health of everyone else inside the store? One person's health is more important than the twenty other customers and staff? HOW? What makes YOU the special snowflake?

"It's the equivalent of pumping a shop full of sulphuric acid so we can cater to the one alien who thinks their right to breathe trumps everyone else's." SPOT ON!!!!

Have you tried getting deliveries recently? I've been using Ocado for years and I'm struggling to get slots now.

Regarding feeling as though you're going to pass out (which happened to me), what do you suggest someone does if that happens? Keep the mask on and pass out or take it off for a minute, get some fresh air and put it back on again. When it happened to me I was in the middle of a shopping centre and so didn't have time to go outside and unfortunately the thought of people like you made me panic in case someone shouted at me.

And before you have a go at me for being a 'special snowflake' (stupid phrase), I always wear a mask on the rare occasions I have to go somewhere I need to wear one.

@blueberryporridge

Because it's not their fucking business to tell other people what to do? There is also a lot of people in the scientific world saying that asymptomatic spread is rubbish. People have lost all common sense. People actively walking round someone because they think they are going to catch something by brushing past them. The world has gone fucking mad. And if you think a piece of cloth being over your nose is going to make a blind bit of difference then carry on preaching your shit and calling anyone who disagrees a covidiot.

Well, aren't you a charmer? Any links to your scientific research that asymptomatic spread is rubbish. Or that face coverings don't make a blind bit of difference? Or that walking round people to avoid touching them is stupid? Because I have read quite a bit of, you know, actual scientific research which actually indicates the opposite.

OP: you have my sympathies. It must be so stressful for you having to deal with so many selfish and/or thoughtless people.

I was replying in the same manner I was spoken to actually. If people can be rude to me then they can expect the same tone in my replies.

Maybe look beyond the mainstream media and you might find reputable scientists who disagree with a lot of what is being implemented at the moment. This article for example lockdownsceptics.org/has-the-evidence-of-asymptomatic-spread-of-covid-19-been-significantly-overstated-2/

Here's another article explaining you need to be standing next to someone who has Covid for 15 minutes before having a chance of catching the virus. www.ibtimes.com/how-long-does-it-take-be-infected-when-standing-next-coronavirus-carrier-2938686

So yes diving out of someone's way for a literal second is frankly insane! As is thinking a piece of cloth material being on someone's nose whilst they are 2 metres away from you is going to make a difference.

@CupOfTeaAlonePlease

OP YANBU

Shame on anyone who goes through the world with so little consideration for others. Of course people should properly wear masks in public spaces during a deadly pandemic.

It's not fair that you are incurring additional and avoidable risk just because people are lazy, ignorant and selfish.

To the PP who asked if I would be happy to wear a mask forever - yes, if it saved lives I would. Just as I am happy to wear a seatbelt, abstain from drink driving, not throw my waste into the street. There are things we do as a society to protect each other and because we are not complete arseholes. Because some things are more important than doing whatever feels comfortable to us at any given moment.

Ok so what about not seeing any of your family and friends again? Just incase you happened to have the virus or indeed any virus for that matter? Happy to do that forever? Didn't think so!

Have you tried getting deliveries recently? I've been using Ocado for years and I'm struggling to get slots now.

Then use another shop. As far as I'm aware Ocado isn't the only supermarket offering deliveries, that one retailer not having availability is not an excuse.

@Menual said it well. None of the excuses stand up, there is always another option.

YANBU I'm amazed at the obnoxious comments. Most people can wear a mask and should be doing what they can to stop the spread and to not put those who can't work from home at risk.

I have anxiety and claustrophobia. Took some fiddling with masks but I got there. Relative with aspergers manages it as does the asthmatic. There will be some people who genuinely can't wear a mask - they are being screwed over by the people who choose to not wear a mask and have got themselves a lanyard when they aren't really entitled to one.

@majesticallyawkward

Have you tried getting deliveries recently? I've been using Ocado for years and I'm struggling to get slots now.

Then use another shop. As far as I'm aware Ocado isn't the only supermarket offering deliveries, that one retailer not having availability is not an excuse.

@Menual said it well. None of the excuses stand up, there is always another option.

Do you not think I might have tried other shops? I haven't been able to get deliveries from the others either. Just so it's clear to you, I was using Ocado as an example. Jesus.

I haven't been able to get deliveries from the others either.

I just don't buy this. Supermarkets have increased demand massively. I can get a delivery from Sainsbury's as early as tomorrow evening, click and collect has every slot (bar a few) free for all of next week. Asda has a delivery slot as early as tomorrow morning. Tesco has a slot tomorrow night 9pm (and the tesco is miles and miles away).

I don't know anyone, either in the city or the suburbs or further out, who is unable to book a slot with at least one of the major supermarkets and I know this because I spent the first lockdown (when there truly was no slots) shopping for them. All of them are now getting home deliveries.

Suggest you download all of the apps and actually try looking. HTH.

@Menual, as you don't know where I live I suggest you don't make assumptions about things you know nothing about.

I'm not lying about supermarket slots and I don't have to prove anything to some random know all on MN. However, just for your information, none of the supermarkets have availability in my area.

Oh and if you're or the other poster who quoted me actually bothered reading what I'd originally said you might have noticed I was struggling to get slots with Ocado, not that I can't.

@IsitSummeryet21

I'm not vulnerable nor do I need to shield. But I am exempt. I'm not going to keep out of shops.. My family has to eat. We don't use shops that deliver.

I am exempt as my ex used to suffocate me and strangle me on a regular basis. I can't deal with anything near my face or my neck.

Whther that's a mask on face. Scarf round my neck, coat done up too high. High neck tops. I can't even wear my hair down because if it comes too far round the front it brings flashbacks.

However. I always keep 2m where I can. If for any reason I have to pass someone close I turn my head and apologise.
I wear a lanyard to avoid confrontation

I have tried. Many many times. Different types of mask. Even a shield I can't do it.
I hyperventilate and panic.

Wearing a mask brought on my 1st panic attack in 5 years the first time I wore it.

Aww sweetheart, you shouldn’t even have to explain. I rarely get asked about my non mask wearing..I only discuss my medical history with my doctor.

Meanwhile while we are all divisive over stupid scraps of fabric, more and more of our freedoms and children’s futures are being eroded.

This is where we should be coming together over..not the stupid stuff.

I find it unbelievable anyone is genuinely unable to get a delivery if that's what they want. It's just another excuse for those who want to martyr themselves about how they have to go shopping.

@majesticallyawkward

I find it unbelievable anyone is genuinely unable to get a delivery if that's what they want. It's just another excuse for those who want to martyr themselves about how they have to go shopping.

I find it unbelievable that you're unable to imagine that things are different for other people. Those who live rurally may not have an option for delivery at all.

Are you generally lacking in imagination?

@MrsBlue4

What a strange argument. No one is telling you to never see your friends and family again. There is a vaccine being distributed.

Furthermore if people wore masks (the actual thing in dispute here) then the virus transmission rates would reduce, and seeing friends and family would be a lot safer and happen sooner.

Melbourne Australia had major outbreaks in 2020 but eradicated the virus, in large part due to wide spread mask wear and harsh lockdown.

If people stopped looking for exemptions and loopholes, and just followed these temporary rules, then you'd get back to seeing friends and family sooner.

CupOfTeaAlonePlease I'm in Melbourne, and we have all the mask exemptions that you do. My husband is exempt, and has never had a problem in shops without a mask.

@skeptile that's my point, if the vast majority do the right thing and wear masks then they protect the small minority who genuinely can't.

This attitude of 'it's too much, I'll just do what's right for me personally and anyone who asks me to consider others is oppressing me' makes things worse for everyone.