Is this normal for a step family?

[Dundee67890]

I have a situation at home that has gone on for so long I’m not even sure if it’s normal or not?

DSD is 17. I’ve been with her dad for 10 years and we’re married. She comes to our house every other weekend Fri to Monday. I wasn’t the reason her parents split but her mum hated me from the start and made my relationship with her daughter difficult from a young age.

When DSD is with us she rarely speaks to me. She’ll answer if I ask her something, but will never take the conversation further. She whispers with her dad regularly and she’ll stop talking if I walk into a room. Like most teens she spends most of the time in her room (even pre COVID). She has been with us since Friday and he literally spent the whole time in bed except for coming out when called for dinner. She’s taken drinks and breakfast back to bed.

She doesn’t wash or shower and her room is an awful mess when she leaves, used sanitary towels left lying around, dirty bed sheets - I don’t go in to her room when she’s here as it’s her private space but from a quick glance as I walk past (door ajar) it is a tip.

I don’t live like this. I work in a hospital and regularly work 50+ hours a week. My weekends are pretty special to my recovery from work and MH but I find the weekends she’s with us are stressful due to the difficult atmosphere.

I’ve tried talking to her dad but he is immediately defensive and starts shouting at me. He refuses to talk about it as he says she’s doing nothing wrong. I’ve tried writing to him but he just ignores me.

I’m not trying to stop her coming, but is there any advice on what I can do to make it better for myself? Is it normal or AIBU?

I could have written this post myself OP. My DSD was exactly the same, room a tip, used STs stuffed in bedside table, makeup stains on the sheets, dirty underwear hidden away. She also would come downstairs and spend time with DH but as soon as I came in she'd disappear back upstairs. The main problem is their mother/DH ex who has loathed me from the off even though she kicked him out, and is jealous and has been determined (& has succeeded) to sabotage any relationship between me and DSC. Couple that with a weak husband who adores DSD so can't see beyond his precious daughter and is highly defensive if anyone criticises her, and it puts you in a situation you can't win. But, 3 years on, although we're not close, DSD has fallen out with mother so stayed with us for a few months and things have improved. She was suffering from v low self esteem/anxiety which I think explains the hiding of the sanitary pads, dirty underwear etc, almost as if she was embarrassed for me to see it in the bin/wash basket, and whilst we'll never be close, we now have a more than civil relationships. I think you should do as other posters have said and see what happens if you leave her mess week after week to her. Definitely don't clear up after her.

Hi Op.
Personally I don't think you have low self esteem or low respect for yourself. Your very aware and have considered many possibilities of what's going on in your home. You say your life is otherwise a very happy one with your husband.

I don't like that he shouts at you when you try to raise the issue. Yes fair enough he is defensive but he is also an adult who should be able to work through difficult discussions with his wife in a respectful way. I would be tackling this first so its not an off the the table topic.

Regarding your step daughter, initially I was thinking yep that's normal teen shit, lazy and non communicative. Its going to happen sometimes that people in blended families just don't get on which is really tough. You expect to have to deal with people you don't like at work but when that's also in your home life it can be difficult. It doesn't mean either or you are wrong but just don't click. Like you say maybe in the future a relationship will evolve when she has grown in maturity, spread her wings and has more life experience.

Her room-yes teens rooms are a whole other level of hell, however that's what parenting is for. To show them actually a little bit of mess in your own space is fine but when its getting stinky, gross with food or sanitary products it crosses a line. A bin in her room (I would be tempted to stick a massive label saying sanitary products go here lol ) Id put a checklist on her wall with things that need to be done in the room before she leaves. Like put rubbish in the bin, take out plates etc so its left in a pleasant way for your husband to go in and sort the bed/hoover.

I do think it needs to be your husband that does the tidying of the room when she leaves. Its the compromise of you and stepdaughter being thrown together when it doesn't quite work so you leave them to it and he cleans up after her. I understand you like to clean it your way but in this case something does need to change. Make those weekends your self care weekends. Don't let them whispering keep you out of any room, do what you want to do.

I suppose if a young woman is leaving used sanitary pads on the bedroom floor, and not washing, then she might be depressed.

I suppose your DH does the whispering thing with her because he loves her and wants to have some communication with her, to help her, and if she whispers then he engages with her in that, because it's the communication she's giving and he wants to be on the receiving end of it, in case it's something significant about her feelings.

She is a grown woman almost, but individuals vary: some drop out of uni and jobs: some make unwise decisions. Parents will usually try to be there for them regardless. I expect your DH is very worried. He probably feels he doesn't have the relationship with his ex in which he can naturally and easily talk with her about their daughter and her mood. Worried about what to do, he probably is scared of losing his daughter in his life, if he should handle things wrongly. He probably doesn't know what to do, but he could ask a family therapist for advice.

Is she deliberately thinking, once a month: "I'm going to place this used sanitary towel facing upwards on the carpet", or is she just very absorbed in her feelings and careless and is just stripping off underwear and leaving it around - including the sanitary wear stuck to it? She sounds like she may be struggling with her mood and emotions.

Is there really no discussion with your DH? Are you expressing yourself as talking about your feelings as oppose to his daughter's revolting habits? "Are you saying: "Look, I'm very upset. Please listen and be supportive?". And does DH really just do the equivalent of going: "Shut up and leave it, will you!" "I don't want to hear what you think!"? when you are talking about your needs? If so, then other posters are right: you do have a problem with DH. He isn't listening or acknowledging your needs.

You don't - you can't expect a troubled teenager to have the same maturity, insight and empathy as a forty-something adult. You have to try to help her as that's what adults do with the young.

It's not a pleasant situation for you at all. But I suppose you have to be bigger than the situation and accept it's difficult. Say to DH it annoys you too much to pick up your step-daughter's mess and that DH will have to be the one to do it or to get her to do it.

Say to DH: " I feel that you are scared of losing her. I want to support and help you, because I can imagine how that must feel for you.".

I would never give the opinion that you should tell your DH that she shouldn't come to the house; that he should choose you over her, because I think that would cause real pain. You have annoyance and discomfort to put up with and frustration of working out how to deal with it, but you don't have real emotional agony. From what you write, your DH loves you - he just can't find a way to improve his daughter's worrying behaviour.

Without knowing the ins and outs, it would be very harsh to give the opinion: ' Just show your DH lots of views from outsiders agreeing with you that the girl is unacceptable and go on and on at him as often as you can until he cracks'.

I found this post really interesting. I have a 9 and 12yo, both boys with an ex.
I'm now remarried and like you my husband was not the cause of the breakup. Yet due to exs narcasist behaviour and emotional blackmail he really turned my 12yo against me and my husband.
My 12yo now doesn't stay overnight at all with us, through his own choice, but was so utterly rude, cheeky, disrespectful and physically violent to me and my husband.
I told him he wasn't allowed back in my house until he could be civil at the very least, after 2 weeks he asked to come back 3 days a week but not overnight.
I said yes as long as you are civil and respectful. The 1st time he came back was awful and I took him straight back to his dad's, after that he is pretty much one word answers to my husband but we are getting there. It was the most difficult thing I have ever had to do by telling him not to come back and I now won't tolerate Any crap at all from him. It is very very difficult.

I couldn't live like this. I really feel for you OP.

I think you need to have one clear final talk with your DH and tell him how the whispering makes you feel, how your DSD barely speaks to you and that she should not be leaving her room in this state.

Re the room, either she has quite serious mental health issues and can't bring herself to be hygenic and dispose of used sanitary items (it would be interesting to know if she behaves the same at her mum's house but I suppose you could never ask her mum). Or she just has so little respect for you and your home and is treating you like a skivvy. If it's the latter, I find it quite shocking that she doesn't mind you seeing her dirty underwear and pads. I would be mortified if anyone else saw this when I was a teenager and probably now too.

If nothing changes after speaking to your DH, you seriously need to consider the future of your relationship. Whilst your DSD will stop staying with you every over weekend in years to come, you'll no doubt still see her a lot. Do you want to be ignored and belittled for the rest of your life?

"I suppose your DH does the whispering thing with her because he loves her and wants to have some communication with her, to help her, and if she whispers then he engages with her in that, because it's the communication she's giving and he wants to be on the receiving end of it, in case it's something significant about her feelings"

Ah come on, seriously? This girl is 17! How on earth is indulging behaviour and communication methods suited to 6 year old serving anyone, least of the all the young lady herself.

Some of it is normal while some of it is not.

The whispering is outrageous. Would your h accept her doing it at his extended family's house? Or with friends? He is colluding with his bullying.

The sanitary towels is also not normal. I'm assuming that there's a bin or sanitary bags available for her to use. Can your h not see it's akin to her shitting or vomiting on the floor and leaving it there? Disgusting.

You say that you don't see it as an h problem but he's the one who allows her to treat you this way. He's taught her that it's acceptable to do the whispering thing. I understand that men often don't want to talk about sanitary towels but how hard would it be for him to suggest a quick tidy before she leaves. As her Dad he could maybe lightly tease or joke about her actually having a bin in her room or something. If her Dad wasn't ok with the whispering then she'd stop but it sounds like your h is a Disney parent who doesn't want to do any actual parenting.

The bits that are in the normal range are not opening windows, excessive phone use and staying in her room. Annoying but common.

@Katierose34

I found this post really interesting. I have a 9 and 12yo, both boys with an ex. I'm now remarried and like you my husband was not the cause of the breakup. Yet due to exs narcasist behaviour and emotional blackmail he really turned my 12yo against me and my husband. My 12yo now doesn't stay overnight at all with us, through his own choice, but was so utterly rude, cheeky, disrespectful and physically violent to me and my husband. I told him he wasn't allowed back in my house until he could be civil at the very least, after 2 weeks he asked to come back 3 days a week but not overnight. I said yes as long as you are civil and respectful. The 1st time he came back was awful and I took him straight back to his dad's, after that he is pretty much one word answers to my husband but we are getting there. It was the most difficult thing I have ever had to do by telling him not to come back and I now won't tolerate Any crap at all from him. It is very very difficult.

I have to say, I think you are incredibly brave to have done this and for what it's worth, I think you are right. We simply cannot allow our children to bully, belittle or manipulate us, not only because we should not allow ourselves to be treated this way, but as genuinely loving parents, we should not countenance the idea of them going out in the world thinking this is how they should treat ANYONE. It will not contribute to their long-term development as people, their ability to form good relationships and even down the line, their own ability to parent well.

The problem is this is a decade old problem
Not easy to fix
But your husband should never have slowed this disrespect

Wow, she sounds like a right horrid person!

Something to consider is that her mom is probably saying how awful you are all the time. If she has had o hear this from a young age she has pretty much been brain washed against you.

If it were me, I would close the door to her room and leave the disgusting mess for her the next time. If she wants clean sheets she can do it herself. The used sanitary towels is revolting. If her dad has to clean it, he might realise the scale of the problem.

When they are whispering come in and just start talking to them at a normal level.

Sounds like she has some problems and isn’t functioning properly, the pills on the tables seems like a cry for attention. If possible just try to ignore it and rise above it.

@TheyIsMyFamily

Stop cleaning her room; leave it for her to find it as she left it.

If your DH kicks off, let him have it. He should be cleaning up after his filthy rude pig of a daughter.

I would leave the room as it is if you can, otherwise tell DH to get on and clean it each and every time. Tell him pads stink so he should crack on before he passes out from the odour. You have nothing to lose by photographing it and sending to him and her mother. The mother sounds as toxic as the daughter.

Why don't you just leave it all as is? I get that it is disgusting and smells, but at this point you have to decide is it more important to you to have that room clean immediately or to try to change something. What I'd suggest is that you leave it all untouched, show to your DH and see if he will clean it up. If he doesn't - still don't touch it and leave it for DSD to deal with when she's back. No matter how long it takes. Just close the door and don't enter the room at all between her visits. One of them will start cleaning it or they'll be pushed into having a conversation about it. Both options are a positive change for you.

This way, if you keep cleaning it while your DH is driving her back, he can't imagine how bad it is and, since he's in defense mode when it comes to her (dad guilt?) he will minimize other stuff to.

I know it is awful to even think about it, but at this point I really believe that its a price worth paying.

Apologies if someone has already suggested this, but I have you tried just saying to her “X if you’re happy with your room being messy then that’s up to you, it’s your space. You do need to stop leaving food and dirty sanitary towels in there though, it makes your room smell and you’ll get flies in there.” It sounds like a very simple suggestion, but I don’t think you’ve actually mentioned whether you’ve tried it.

I would say it once to her in private and if that doesn’t work then I would say it to her in front of her dad. It’s absolutely disgusting and if she won’t stop doing it then he needs to deal with it. I’m assuming he knows about the sanitary towels. Presumably he thinks you should have to clean them up and not him because you’re a woman?

Agree, close the door and stop cleaning her room, however gross it gets. Ignore the pills and the whispering (for now) as I think you have to pick your battles. Keep doing the food shop (as it will give you space out the house). Stop cooking every night. They are making it perfectly clear that you are not wanted or needed in any way except to skivvy after them. Why do you keep doing it? They don't even acknowledge it let alone appreciate it. 🤷

Leave it for him to clean.
I couldn’t stay in a marriage where I am so disrespected.
Your DH is a twat.

This!
I'd call out the whispering too- they're both extremely rude to do this. I wouldn't tolerate this from a four year old, let alone a nearly adult and a husband.

To an extent, you seem to have allowed this situation to go on for so long, it's 'normal'. It'll be very hard to change their behaviour now, although everyone would benefit from a more respectful relationship with each other.

You may not be able to change their behaviour, however, the good news is, that you can change your response to it!

Tell them both you're sick of their rude behaviour and from now on they have a choice- they can either be more respectful and pull their weight ( give them a list of exactly what they need to do) or sort themselves out for cleaning, cooking and washing and anythingthing else you do for them both. I'd also include anything financial in that too, if it's possible.

It must be a truly horrible situation for you to put up with in your own home . Good luck in creating some change in the situation. Let us know how you get on. Mumsnet is good for support in this sort of situation.

The OP is protecting her husband from his daughter's filth.

If she had self respect she would leave them there for him to deal with.

There is absolutely no excuse for such disgusting behaviour which screams Fxxk you.

The OP has accepted this for 10 years.
Most people wouldn't accept it for 6 months.

She may not wish to be close to the OP, but she needs to be polite and to clean up after herself.

She sounds utterly dragged up by both her parents.
Neither of them are teaching her basic self respect either.

That she would be so dirty in her personal habits reflects directly on her and her parents but its the skivvy OP who facilitates it.

We teach people how to treat us...and you have taught her to treat you like dirt and your husband to shout you down.

Highly dysfunctional and abusive of the OP.

If it wasn't MN it would be hard to believe that someone would allow two people to treat her with such disrespect for 10 YEARS.

Thats grim I would hit the roof if my dd was leaving used sanitary products in her bedroom. That's not a normal reaction from you're dh has he always been like that?

I'm appalled that a girl of 17 (a young woman), is so dirty. It's very unusual.

Her father should not shout at you, that is so wrong. He should tell her off. I honestly don't understand him.

Something must be done about this - is she ill?

OP - if you are still around - as you are in NHS you can probably tell if DSD has MH problems and if she does not I would have blazing rows with her and DH until something improved and/or tell them to go to a hotel/elsewhere for their weekends.

It’s not uncommon for Dads to feel a bit guilty and indulge their children when they see them every other weekend. It really doesn’t do the resident parents any favours either! Teens can be horrible, try not to take it too personally. I think you really do need to shut the door and leave the bedroom as it is, as hard as that may be. The only person getting the negative side of the behaviour at the moment is you, which isn’t fair

On a practical note does she have disposal bags and a bin in her room?

I would probably guess her mum makes her be like this towards you out of loyalty to her mum she feels she has to behave that way best thing to do is ignore her don't even try to communicate let your husband sort her needs out and enjoy your life let the brat get on with it

@BungleandGeorge

On a practical note does she have disposal bags and a bin in her room?

This has already been answered that yes, she does but even if not, you do what you would do if in a hotel or something, wrap it very tightly in tissues paper and dispose of it in a bin, any bin. The leaving of these items around unwrapped is a sign of a lack of self respect and respect towards the OP. Either that or a deliberate Fuck you. None of these are palatable options

But it IS your husbands fault?

As a bare minimum, he should be telling her that she is not to eat any meals in her bedroom, she is not to leave mess in there and she is not to whisper to him in your presence. Why isn't he doing this? It's just plain fucking rude.

She's also accountable for how she behaves, yes. But it's him who needs to step up and put this change into effect

I would close the bedroom door, say nothing to her dad, and stay away (I realise how hard you would find this, but please, do it). Leave it just as it is, so the next time she visits, her room is a smelly tip, and she either has to clean it up herself or live with it. If she kicks off, tell her you are under no obligation to clear up such a disgusting mess left by someone who is nearly a legal adult - especially one who is so discourteous to you in your own home.