To think that the vast majority of people do not feel they have a gender identity?

[Galvantulang]

My company has recently started suggesting that we can record our gender identity and preferred pronouns (these would be publicly displayed on the intranet) on our HR record system. It's optional for now, but almost everyone I asked at work when the email came out went "eh?".

Apart from the data protection issues of collecting all this extra information, AIBU to think that the majority of people don't consider themselves to have a gender identity, just their sex?

i.e. you don't identify as a man or woman, you just... are one?

Watching laws and amendments to bills being proposed (especially in Scotland) based on recognising gender identity rather than biological sex, seems somewhat unreal.

Um...

Yabu = I feel like I have a gender identity.
Yanbu = I do not feel like I have a gender identity.

[CharlieParley]

@ColdBrightClearMorning

Having worked in a male prison I find it very telling that for all of the focus on MN on ‘bringing to light’ assaults on cis woman by trans women, there’s rarely much discourse around the assaults endured by trans women in male prisons. The trans women I worked alongside in various prisons endured an incredible amount of emotional and physical abuse.

We're discussing the needs of female people and our sex-based rights. What does this have to do with assaults on males by other males? Why do you find it strange that women who want to focus on female people would not focus on males instead?

[Skysblue]

If you agree to record a ‘gender identity’ then you are agreeing that gender identity exists as a separate thing to biological sex, ie that you support Stonewall’s anti-women trans ideology.

If you agree to state your ‘preferred pronouns’ then you are agreeing that instead of describing biological sex, pronouns describe a completely separate thing which can be changed at will and doesn’t even have to obey the rules of grammar.

It’s supporting a form of brainwashing. It’s telling women to state on their personal profile that women don’t exist except as an idea in someone’s head (which will be from a man’s perspective ie about what women look like and be completely ignorant of the real experience of being a woman ie growing up with sexism, constant harrassment, physical vulnerability and issues like periods childbirth stress-incontinence menopause etc).

I’m a little involved with the publishing industry and note that huge numbers of literary agencies and publishers have been asked to do this on their twitter profiles. The trans lobby are very specifically going after publishing, news websites and schools (as well as government departments etc).

I won’t hire anyone who states preferred pronouns/ gender identity on their profile.

[gardenbird48]

@ColdBrightClearMorning

Fair enough. As a feminist I care very much about what happens to my fellow women, but each to their own.

Which women are you talking about here then?

The type of women who get raped and attacked and impregnated by male bodied people while held in prison? (The impregnations I have heard about are in other countries btw but rapes and attacks in the uk) - do you worry about them?

Obviously you are free to worry about whoever you like but don’t be surprised when other women worry about the impact of allowing male bodied people to be held in women’s prisons.

[AmberAndAlexsMum]

I've decided to identify as a small blue mushroom.
Having said that, I am a woman with all the womanly bits I was born with.😀😀😀

[Whatsnewpussyhat]

Has the poll disappeared for anyone else?
It was over 2300 votes last night with 90% agreeing with op.

[jj1968]

[quote Lifeaintalwaysempty]@jj1968 with reference sexual assault: Transgender prisoners are five times more likely to carry out sex attacks on inmates at women’s jails than other prisoners are, official figures show. Times, May 11th 2020. The number of transgender prisoners is low, so the number of sexual assaults is low overall, but very high in relative terms. Not great is it.[/quote]
This isn't true. The MoJ made clear these attacks were committed by trans women, trans men and non binary individuals. There has been no information given on how many incidents have occurred which specifically invlved trans women.

In contrast, and according to the same figures, transgender prison inmates are roughly 30 times more likely to be sexually assaulted than non transgender inmates, whether men or women.

[AskingQuestionsAllTheTime]

@Whatsnewpussyhat

Has the poll disappeared for anyone else?
It was over 2300 votes last night with 90% agreeing with op.

Yes, it's gone for me as well. Why would that happen?

[Devlesko]

I identify as a woman because I am female, and was born female.
Don't care what others call themselves, tbh.

[Whatsnewpussyhat]

Yes, it's gone for me as well. Why would that happen?
If it's gone for everyone the MN have removed it without telling us. Sly. Someone not wanting those results being shown.

[Devlesko]

Poll 2463 91% YANBU

For anyone who has lost the poll.

[Whatsnewpussyhat]

Yay! Thanks Devlesko!

[jj1968]

@CharlieParley

So your evidence is a google search string. Have you actually read any of the papers? If you had you would know it is an area of contention whther gender dysphoria is causally linked to childhood trauma, or whether children with gender dysphoria are traumatised by transphobic attitudes and lack of understanding. How do you think a trans child might feel seeing trans adults constantly accused of being predators or perverts for example? How might this play out in playgrounds and schools when so many parents have these attitudes and no doubt pass them on to their children? As just an example of some of the difficulties trans children face which may result in trauma.

The relationship between childhod trauma and childhood gender dysphoria is vastly complex and to claim, as you did, that most childhood gender dysphoria is linked to abuse, trauma or the imposition of gender stereotyoes is pure speculation.

I note btw that CEDAW asked for evidence on the impact of policy changes rather than specifically raised concerns. Not particularly significant, just more of the drip drip.

[ArcheryAnnie]

How do you think a trans child might feel seeing trans adults constantly accused of being predators or perverts for example?

There's no such thing as a trans child. HTH.

There are plenty of predators out there, and suppressing information on these predators, however they identify, for the sake of some people's feelings is actively dangerous. I wonder at the motivations of anyone who would suggest this is a good idea.

[Lifeaintalwaysempty]

@jj1968 evidence please! Of where it states than transgender prisons in female prison are not all trans women. Thanks.

[VickyEadieofThigh]

@ArcheryAnnie

How do you think a trans child might feel seeing trans adults constantly accused of being predators or perverts for example?

There's no such thing as a trans child. HTH.

There are plenty of predators out there, and suppressing information on these predators, however they identify, for the sake of some people's feelings is actively dangerous. I wonder at the motivations of anyone who would suggest this is a good idea.

Trans adults are NOT "constantly accused of being predators or perverts".

Pointing out that the risk to women from males is the same however a male 'identifies' (in parenthesis because of the umbrella inclusion of a wide range of 'identities', including transvestites) is not accusing trans adults of being predators or perverts.

It's pointing out that males - and we can't single out which - are a predatory risk to women.

[Stripesnomore]

‘I note btw that CEDAW asked for evidence on the impact of policy changes rather than specifically raised concerns. Not particularly significant, just more of the drip drip.’

No. They have raised concerns: that information on discrimination is not being collected, that policies to prevent discrimination against women are not being created and that amendments on gender may impact women. They are asking Portugal how it intends to rectify this so as to correctly implement CEDAW - an international convention Portugal and the U.K. have both signed up to, despite trans activists belief that we have no obligations tackle sex discrimination.

[Wrongsideofhistorymyarse]

@ColdBrightClearMorning

Fair enough. As a feminist I care very much about what happens to my fellow women, but each to their own.

In what way are transwomen women? Show your workings.

[jj1968]

[quote Lifeaintalwaysempty]@jj1968 evidence please! Of where it states than transgender prisons in female prison are not all trans women. Thanks.[/quote]
There were 34 transgender prisoners in women’s prisons: 30 reported their legal gender as female and 4 as male. When asked about the gender with which the prisoner identified, 11 identified as female, 20 as male and 3 did not provide a response.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/848759/hmpps-offender-equalities-2018-19.pdf

From the Beeb report on the assaults:

Ms Frazer said the total included those who were born female but identified as men, non-binary or intersex, as well as people who were male by birth and now identified as female.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52748117

[ArcheryAnnie]

Trans adults are NOT "constantly accused of being predators or perverts"

Vicky totally agree - but I see time and again that mentioning any of the many trans-identified prisoners who have assaulted women prisoners, or who have a criminal history of rape, is wrong, because it paints all transwomen as predators. Which is as ridiculous as saying that reporting any man who rapes is painting all men as rapists.

So yes, I do wonder at the motivations of anyone who wants to suppress news of any predator out there.

[ArabellaScott]

Oh, I think I have found a definition of 'gender identity'. Will leave it here, in case it helps:

twitter.com/LabelFreeBrands/status/1357834128071118849?s=20

‘So you are a transgender boy, you know what that means?
So you were born a girl, but you feel like a boy, right? That means
that kinda means you’re transgender, okay. And that’s okay, but that’s
that’s just the term for it. Do you like doing quiet, girly activities, or do you being, do you like jumping around, and being crazy and tackling everybody?'

‘Hmm … boy activities.‘

[Stripesnomore]

That quote is very misleading, as it makes clear in the report that it doesn’t include prisoners with a gender recognition certificate.

[OldCrone]

@Stripesnomore

That quote is very misleading, as it makes clear in the report that it doesn’t include prisoners with a gender recognition certificate.

I can't make sense of that report. It says that it excludes those with a GRC, so the person's legal sex must be the one on their original birth certificate.

It says:
- There were 34 transgender prisoners in women’s prisons: 30 reported their legal gender as female and 4 as male. When asked about the gender with which the prisoner identified, 11 identified as female, 20 as male and 3 did not provide a response.

- There were 129 transgender prisoners in men’s prisons: 2 reported their legal gender as female and 125 as male, with 2 not providing a response. When asked about the gender with which the prisoner identified, 119 identified as female, 0 as male and 10 did not provide a response

If none of these have a GRC, then in men's prisons, there are at least 2 women who identify as transgender, but don't identify as men. What are they doing in a male prison?

In women's prisons, presumably the 4 legal males identify as women, which leaves 7 women who identify as women, but say they are transgender, which is a bit odd.

Have I missed something?

[Lifeaintalwaysempty]

@jj1968 Thankyou. Well, transgender prisoners are 5x more likely to commit sex offences in women’s prisons (not including those with a GRC who are not included in the figures) and according to MoJ 99.1% of sexual offences are committed by males so despite the conflicting info about what biological sex those transgender prisoners are (it’s astonishing that we do not have definitive information) I’m going to go out on a limb and take an educated guess about the biological sex of those trans prisoners who are in jail for sex offences and those who are committing sex offences whilst in jail.

[Stripesnomore]

It isn’t very helpful info. The only thing I found interesting was that only 6% of the self identifying trans prisoners were BAME people, compared to 27% of the overall prison population, which makes me question whether trans is much more of a white issue.

Is it the case then that nobody actually knows how many trans people there are in prison, or is the data available somewhere?

[Lifeaintalwaysempty]

@Stripesnomore they know how many transgender prisoners without a GRC there are. They don’t seem to say anywhere what biological sex they are (which is astonishing) and they don’t record how many transgender inmates with a GRC there are, as they are ‘legally’ the sex they have transitioned to.