To think that the vast majority of people do not feel they have a gender identity?

[Galvantulang]

My company has recently started suggesting that we can record our gender identity and preferred pronouns (these would be publicly displayed on the intranet) on our HR record system. It's optional for now, but almost everyone I asked at work when the email came out went "eh?".

Apart from the data protection issues of collecting all this extra information, AIBU to think that the majority of people don't consider themselves to have a gender identity, just their sex?

i.e. you don't identify as a man or woman, you just... are one?

Watching laws and amendments to bills being proposed (especially in Scotland) based on recognising gender identity rather than biological sex, seems somewhat unreal.

Um...

Yabu = I feel like I have a gender identity.
Yanbu = I do not feel like I have a gender identity.

I don't "feel like" anything. I have a female body that I've inhabited for nearly 40 years. That body is mine, for better or worse. I've hated it, I've loved it, I've been amazed and astounded by what it can do, I've wished it was different because it's far from perfect....but at no point have I ever been so detached from reality as to think it's the "wrong body" It's just the body I've got.

@OwlBeThere

i've never thought about it, but i suspect thats in the same way i've never thought about my sexuality, because I fall into the 'norm' so i havent had to think about it. if it doesn't matter to you, then it doesn't. but that doesn't mean it doesn't matter to other people.

This is a good way of looking at it

Maverique is a gender identity that is characterized by autonym towards manhood or womanhood, while having the internal conviction that it is unrelated or not derived from none of the binary genders, while this is not a genderlessness or a gender apathy nor a gender neutrality

You should put down maverique, OP, and put the helpful definition in your email signature. No one will ever ask you about it

@Quaagars

YABU. I'm not trans, but I do have a very strong sense of being female regardless of what my sex is, or my personality is despite what people try to make me feel on here. It's just there. No, I can't describe it. Is this the next question on the list of "any energy for any more?" infilitration of AIBU, was wondering when the next trans question was going to pop up, was thinking should be soon lol and here it is

I know a few others who say similar but very many more like me who don't feel either male or female, albeit we all have a body which is one or other and were stuck with that socialisation. Do you think it's possible that you're at one end of the bell curve with a few who strongly feel they have sense of being their sex, and at the other end are a few who strongly feel they have a sense of being the opposite sex, but the majority (as suggested by this poll) just.... don't?

That's not a trick question, I've searched for a gender identity and I've read various recommended books and done the My Gender Workbook but ultimately I just didn't feel any affinity with any of it and didn't experience any of the 'aha' moments that others report.

A lot of women are nothing like me so it would be pointless identifying as one, because I wouldn't know which one to go for.

I have thought about my sexuality a lot, in spite of 'falling into the norm' because it is interesting. It is not like my sex or the absence of identity beyond myself.

@SamLovesLembasBread

It does seem like a waste of time and resources to ask people for their gender identity when most will give the standard "normal" answer, if an answer is required for them to continue working.

Why would it matter, anyway?! What is the point of asking?

I expect it is like when they used to ask your religion on forms and everyone used to put CofE because they didn't know what else to answer.

Then Jedi came along

I'm northern.
We earned some sort of exemption didn't we?

Do you think it's possible that you're at one end of the bell curve with a few who strongly feel they have sense of being their sex, and at the other end are a few who strongly feel they have a sense of being the opposite sex, but the majority (as suggested by this poll) just.... don't?

This makes sense to me

I am so confused.
I am a woman. I was born female. I love being female, but that’s all I know, that’s who I am. I understand I was socialised to be female but I love “girly” stuff- I have a brother 11 months younger than me so had loads of “boy” toys around but was never interested in playing with any of them. I have a strong desire to nurture and help others, and I’m good at it, so I am in a “female” profession. I’m good at fixing things, maths and am a bit of a Jack of all trades- I could have been a good mechanic or electrician. I was outspoken and headstrong as a teen/in my 20s and could have made any career choice I wanted, I didn’t need validation from anyone, but I wanted to nurture children so I became a teacher.

Is gender personality?
Is gender even a thing?
Is gender important?

It's an interesting discussion, but in a work context I would raise two points:

My company has recently started suggesting that we can record our gender identity and preferred pronouns (these would be publicly displayed on the intranet) on our HR record system

Identifying as female will affect how others respond to you. It will unfortunately mostly negatively affect how others respond to you.

www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/gender-inequality-man-woman-switch-names-week-martin-schneider-nicky-knacks-pay-gap-a7622201.html

hbr.org/2017/10/a-study-used-sensors-to-show-that-men-and-women-are-treated-differently-at-work

Secondly, asking for pronouns is intrusive and problematic. Some people find it offensive to be asked and some people find it stressful (people might feel pressurised to declare a gender either they are not comfortable with or one they are not ready to be 'out' about.)

If there's any pressure from work, you can cite Yogyakarta principle #6:

The Right to Privacy

'Everyone, regardless of sexual orientation or gender identity, is entitled to the enjoyment of privacy without arbitrary or unlawful interference, including with regard to their family, home or correspondence as well as to protection from unlawful attacks on their honour and reputation. The right to privacy ordinarily includes the choice to disclose or not to disclose information relating to one’s sexual orientation or gender identity, as well as decisions and choices regarding both one’s own body and consensual sexual and other relations with others.'

I don’t think I have one, but I don’t know whether it’s because I have no problems with my sex and identity. Could it be something you only feel if there is a mismatch?

DH showed me the preferred pronoun email footer from one of his colleagues. It is a bit close to compelled speech for my liking. My pronouns are I / me / mine, aren't most people's? How other people refer to me out of my hearing is none of my business. To my face it is usually you and yours, but where I used to live (a more working class area of Yorkshire) I would get the occasional 'tha' which I quite enjoyed.
That only leaves 'in my hearing but not to my face'. Have I got the right to dictate that? I'm not sure I have.
I don't have a gender. The reason I got catcalled as a pubescent girl was nothing to do with how I felt about my identity, and everything to do with my sex. We need to centre sex more. Sex is the reason we need feminism, not gender.

Gender might not seem important to most of you judging by the poll but I bet the majority would be pretty unhappy to be called "sir" or "Mr" which is why getting the correct gender pronoun's is important to helping people feel included and respected. Obviously this is a simplistic view of gender and gendered pronoun's but it gets the point across as to why they matter.

The fundamentals of me are 'woman'. All the women around me are also fundamentally woman. You're all lying to yourselves when you say you don't have a gender😂 I sincerely hope that is the case in future but we're hundreds of years away from that. Saying you've no gender but your sex is dale is honestly so transparent.

Why do you want to know my gender? Do you want to stereotype me, stick me in a labelled box?

Asking you your preferred pronouns isn't a data protection issue in the slightest so I don't agree at all on that part OP.

But if I'm told to do it at work I'll tell them to fuck off. I hate this shit. I have trans friends, gay friends, people who identify as all sorts. I don't care what people identify as.

If people want to state their preferred pronouns that's fine, but no way should it be mandatory. That's my only issue.

Gender reassignment is a protected characteristic. I know that's different to pronoun preferences, but I don't understand why it's ok to expect people to declare what is a potential a protected characteristic, when it would be absolutely unacceptable to expect people to declare other things such as marital status, disability, or religion etc

@Whitecup4

Im a women, but I don’t act like one I guess?? I don’t do make up and bitching and get scared to get dirty or muddy, but I’m not like a bloke either, I don’t fight, burp or fart aloud, play football or like sport. I just feel like myself, neither like a man or a women but just me.

However i am a women, happy with that, but I identify as me I guess? I don’t identify as a women, I am a women.

This is where you are being sexist and this is due to the expectations society has placed on you.

Humans of both sexes can wear make up, bitch, not worry about getting muddy, burp, fart, fight, play football or like sport.

People are individuals not cattle, and placing gender identities on people is trying to treat what is unique about members of the human race as cattle.

I dont understand gender identity. I dont have strong feelings about being womanly. I dont think im traditionally feminine at all and dont relate to any of it.
If I was a teenager now, id probably think this made me non binary, but I know im a woman as im female and it never occured to me I could be anything else.

I'm really confused my the recent backlash against the word "gender". I think people are trying to hit back at the new gender identity trend by saying there is no such thing.

I feel like I've missed a part of what's going on. I think I'm female and therefore I'm a woman. If someone is male they are a man. One is more a biological term, as you can have a female cat who is not a woman or a male fish who is not a man. And the words "man" and "woman" are words that apply to human beings.

I never thought there was a distinction between "sex" and "gender" beyond that.

A transsexual person doesn't have a different sex or a different gender to the one they were born with. They just want to live as though they did as they feel happier like that.

I think everyone is getting tied up in knots in a bid to hold onto the meaning of the word "sex". I'd like to return both meanings. My sex and my gender are female and woman 🤷🏻‍♀️

@YetAnotherSpartacus you have enunciated how I feel much better than I have ever done myself! Thanks :-)

*It's an interesting discussion, but in a work context I would raise two points:

My company has recently started suggesting that we can record our gender identity and preferred pronouns (these would be publicly displayed on the intranet) on our HR record system

Identifying as female will affect how others respond to you. It will unfortunately mostly negatively affect how others respond to you*

This. I’ve screenshotted Arabella’s post for when this is deleted as being not in the spirit and us wimmins are told to be nice.

What is between my legs, and what I prefer between the legs of a sex partner is of zero interest to anyone else. Brain and personality is what makes people of interest.

If asked to identify myself I will produce my driving licence. Will that do?

@VaggieMight I don’t think you understand. They are not asking if people have changed their gender, they are asking their current preferred pronouns, that gives no indication of whether they have changed their gender or not. Pronouns are not a protected characteristic.