Page 30 | To think that the vast majority of people do not feel they have a gender identity?

Galvantulang · 2021-02-06T21:49:23+00:00

My company has recently started suggesting that we can record our gender identity and preferred pronouns (these would be publicly displayed on the intranet) on our HR record system. It's optional for now, but almost everyone I asked at work when the email came out went "eh?". Apart from the data protection issues of collecting all this extra information, AIBU to think that the majority of people don't consider themselves to have a gender identity, just their sex? i.e. you don't identify as a man or woman, you just... are one? [confused] Watching laws and amendments to bills being proposed (especially in Scotland) based on recognising gender identity rather than biological sex, seems somewhat unreal. Um... Yabu = I feel like I have a gender identity. Yanbu = I do not feel like I have a gender identity.

VPNine · 09/02/2021 16:01

"I have always know my gender identity is female" and "I have always know I am female" are semantically the same. That's what gender identity means

Fair enough, DadJoke, but I am struggling. If that is what gender identity means can you help me out with a definition of gender? I think that might be where I am going wrong.

HighlightedTrees · 09/02/2021 16:01

@LetItGoGo no you are not. You don't have to identify as anything. Even if Gender Identity ideology is trying to force the issue.

BraxtonChic · 09/02/2021 16:04

"I have always know my gender identity is female" and "I have always know I am female" are semantically the same. That's what gender identity means.

A quick Google of the many sites that attempt to describe gender identity say quite emphatically that sex and gender are not the same thing.

"I have always known my gender identity is feminine" would work.

littlbrowndog · 09/02/2021 16:09

Where is this gender identity. Or aesthetist. Identity ?

Is it in your head ?

Can everyone have one or more

How do you get other people to recognise identities

What if they won’t ?

RufustheSniggeringReindeer · 09/02/2021 16:10

a social construction relating to behaviours and attributes based on labels of masculinity and femininity; gender identity is a personal, internal perception of oneself and so the gender category someone identifies with may not match the sex they were assigned at birth

where an individual may see themselves as a man, a woman, as having no gender, or as having a non-binary gender – where people identify as somewhere on a spectrum between man and woman

This seems a clear(ish) explanation

Someone is going to have to explain in great detail what a woman and a man are like, i have very short hair (clippered it off at the weekend) but i do love makeup, so by the earlier post that makes me a bit of both...yeah?

DeaconBoo · 09/02/2021 16:11

If sex and gender were the same, Stonewall would have no problem in being able to state that "homosexuality is same-sex attraction". Instead, when they tweeted that definition, they then apologised and deleted it.

Datun · 09/02/2021 16:13

I have always know my gender identity is female" and "I have always know I am female" are semantically the same. That's what gender identity means.

Female is a word with a meaning in language, law, biology and politics. It doesn't mean 'male'.

Unless you think humans can simultaneously bear eggs and produce sperm?

RufustheSniggeringReindeer · 09/02/2021 16:14

sex as characteristics that are biologically defined, whereas gender is based on socially constructed features

Datun · 09/02/2021 16:17

a social construction relating to behaviours and attributes based on labels of masculinity and femininity; gender identity is a personal, internal perception of oneself

But who decides what's masculine and what's feminine in that case? How do I know?

C'mon, who's got the list?

RufustheSniggeringReindeer · 09/02/2021 16:19

@Datun

a social construction relating to behaviours and attributes based on labels of masculinity and femininity; gender identity is a personal, internal perception of oneself

But who decides what's masculine and what's feminine in that case? How do I know?

C'mon, who's got the list?

vicky needs to take one for the team and go back and get the full list off that bloke on the forum

unmarkedbythat · 09/02/2021 16:25

It's weird that the concept of gender identity causes such angst in modern Western cultures but not in others. Also weird how insistent many modern Westerners are that only their view of sex and gender can possibly be the right one and that despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, their position on what sex and gender is and are is timeless, universal and unarguable.

CharlieParley · 09/02/2021 16:27

Regarding the detransitioners jj1968 linked to, the first is not a detransitioner at all, but a firm believer in transgender ideology and legislation called Lee who had to stop taking testosterone for health reasons, and who is slowly losing sight as a consequence of the medical transition.

Lee, who identifies as transmasculine, criticises the fact that many detransitioners and their newly-founded advocacy groups have links to left-wing radical feminists and right-wing religious groups.

Like so many others, Lee cannot address the substantial reason why Keira and Mrs A won their judicial review and so seeks to discredit their lawyers by focusing solely on other cases they were involved with.

As for Ky, I addressed this in another thread when jj1968 brought this up. This was, and is, someone I would consider very vulnerable, suffering from an unstable sense of self and emotional dysregulation. Who describes being immersed in two communities with people suffering from similarly severe identity disorders (first trans, then detrans). That this isn't healthy is hardly surprising. It's good to see that Ky is now setting boundaries. But I don't see how this proves that we all have a gender identity.

Datun · 09/02/2021 16:29

It's weird that the concept of gender identity causes such angst in modern Western cultures but not in others.

I'd imagine that male rapists saying they're women and getting into female prisons is pretty much a cause of controversy in any culture.

334bu · 09/02/2021 16:35

It's weird that the concept of gender identity causes such angst in modern Western cultures but not in others. Also weird how insistent many modern Westerners are that only their view of sex and gender can possibly be the right one and that despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, their position on what sex and gender is and are is timeless, universal and unarguable.*

I bet you all these cultures know very well what sex any human being is.

VickyEadieofThigh · 09/02/2021 16:37

Found it!

To think that the vast majority of people do not feel they have a gender identity?

Stripesnomore · 09/02/2021 16:37

I don’t know of any other culture with a concept of gender identity as it is defined by Western trans activists.

DeaconBoo · 09/02/2021 16:39

@unmarkedbythat

It's weird that the concept of gender identity causes such angst in modern Western cultures but not in others. Also weird how insistent many modern Westerners are that only their view of sex and gender can possibly be the right one and that despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, their position on what sex and gender is and are is timeless, universal and unarguable.

Do you think this view of yours, that I've quoted ("it's weird..."), is the right one, unmarked?

Datun · 09/02/2021 16:42

@VickyEadieofThigh

Found it!

The means by which it's done.

VickyEadieofThigh · 09/02/2021 16:43

@unmarkedbythat

It's weird that the concept of gender identity causes such angst in modern Western cultures but not in others. Also weird how insistent many modern Westerners are that only their view of sex and gender can possibly be the right one and that despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, their position on what sex and gender is and are is timeless, universal and unarguable.

Which others do you mean?

RufustheSniggeringReindeer · 09/02/2021 16:45

Thats an awful list vicky 😀

So for me....

Man
Man
Woman...though I don’t agree that its just women
Man
Man
Man
Man
Man
Man
Man

So im more manly by that (admittedly stupid fucking) list

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 09/02/2021 16:46

@VickyEadieofThigh

Found it!

Like to cook: Y Like to clean (clean what?): N Doesn't like to do real job: difficult. I am retired for health reasons, so N because it makes me ill very quickly, otherwise would be Y Sensitive: Y&N because that depends on "to what". Allergies? Being shouted at? Cries too much: N, but define "too much" Obedient: N Wants long hair: N Wants dress: depends on the weather; happy with none in hot summer, not in cold winter Wants babies: N Can't drive: N. My bet (speaking as an advanced driver) is that I am probably better at driving than someone whose brain capacity produced a list like this one.

RufustheSniggeringReindeer · 09/02/2021 16:46

Although i am more than happy to agree that that list is a load of shite and joseph needs to go and lie down in a dark room...preferably forever

VickyEadieofThigh · 09/02/2021 16:46

@RufustheSniggeringReindeer

Thats an awful list vicky 😀

So for me....

Man
Man
Woman...though I don’t agree that its just women
Man
Man
Man
Man
Man
Man
Man

So im more manly by that (admittedly stupid fucking) list

I am 'man' for every single item on that stupid list.

HipTightOnions · 09/02/2021 16:49

If you answer the question "Are you a woman?" yes, then your gender identity is woman. That's what the words "gender identity" mean.

If you ask “Are you 5’ 6”?” I will say “yes”. Perhaps this means I have a height identity.

RufustheSniggeringReindeer · 09/02/2021 16:50

No one LIKES cleaning

(And i dont care how many examples people want to give me of randoms that love to clean....cos I don’t believe it)