To think that the vast majority of people do not feel they have a gender identity?

[Galvantulang]

My company has recently started suggesting that we can record our gender identity and preferred pronouns (these would be publicly displayed on the intranet) on our HR record system. It's optional for now, but almost everyone I asked at work when the email came out went "eh?".

Apart from the data protection issues of collecting all this extra information, AIBU to think that the majority of people don't consider themselves to have a gender identity, just their sex?

i.e. you don't identify as a man or woman, you just... are one?

Watching laws and amendments to bills being proposed (especially in Scotland) based on recognising gender identity rather than biological sex, seems somewhat unreal.

Um...

Yabu = I feel like I have a gender identity.
Yanbu = I do not feel like I have a gender identity.

@OldCrone

Those numbers will shift soon enough given the age breakdown. In five years time it will look very different, in a decade I imagine support will be near universal.

Are you expecting all the old witches to be dead by then, or do you have something else in mind?

This is rather funny Old Crone.

I would have gone along with the ideology for the most part .... until I had a daughter. After that, everything changed. I expect from what I have read over my past year on FWR, that my experience is not dissimilar to many. So, I think that those counting on the 'witches' dying out, are fully believing that there are no 'witches' to take our place along our boundaries stating NO.

@VPNine

Of course this means you can cook the books, use different sets of figures to suit different arguments, conflate trans women with trans men and non binary people, chuck in a bit of speculation and come up with pretty much whatever figure you want

DARVO is an acronym for "deny, attack, and reverse victim and offender". It is a common manipulation strategy of psychological abusers. The abuser denies the abuse ever took place, attacks the victim for attempting to hold the abuser accountable, and claims that they, the abuser, are actually the victim in the situation, thus reversing the reality of the victim and offender. This usually involves not just "playing the victim" but also victim blaming

In 2011, GIRES estimated that only 20% of the UK transgender population were likely to seek medical treatment for their condition at some stage.

That's any medical treatment, hormones, facial feminisation surgery, boobs.

GIRES is a transgender lobby group.

Ignore it. To me it might as well be cult-speak. We're regressing back to 1950s ideas of gender.

If they push, just say you find it an extremely private and sensitive thing to display on one's profile.

And by trans they meant anyone gender variant to some degree including trans men and non binary people. I do wonder why some people find it so hard to grasp that trans is an umbrella term that covers all kind of gender identities, of which only one is trans woman.

Or, you can just Google trans girls.

Because trans sex work websites are the perfect place to find a representative sample of trans women. Just like pornhub is the best place to learn about what women are like.

I don't get any porn sites when I google that term?

@Winesalot Yep. It frustrates me so much when women (like Germaine Greer) dismiss sexual assault or harassment issues by saying we should stamp on the man's foot or something. Lol. If you do that, you might get a punch in the face and your teeth knocked out, and that is what some women experience simply for verbally rejecting men, let alone actually lashing out at them physically!! And then naturally, the blame would be directly or indirectly placed at the woman's feet for aggrevating the situation, I'm sure.

And by trans they meant anyone gender variant to some degree including trans men and non binary people. I do wonder why some people find it so hard to grasp that trans is an umbrella term that covers all kind of gender identities, of which only one is trans woman.

We know this perfectly well. It only matters how policymakers define it, though. What is being demanded is that we accept the whole umbrella of gender identities and put their needs first. No. Take it up with Stonewall.

EarthSight It also shows completely how males cannot actually conceive that there are significant biological differences between men and women. And that sometimes, there is no escaping.

It is simply a way to minimise female's needs for safeguarding if some women have been known to 'fight back'. It is directly along the line of 'females commit sexual assault too'.

@OldCrone

There has been no research that shows most trans women are very happy with their male parts. It's a complete fabrication.

I don't know about research, but there is plenty of evidence out there that many "transwomen" are very happy with their male parts. As shown in this delightful tweet from Danielle Muscato.

I'm also thinking of people like Tara Hudson and Tara's '7 inch surprise'.

So we've gone from most trans women are very happy with their male parts to here's a tweet where a trans woman mentions her male parts in an offensive way. It's almost as if you scour social media for trans people saying things you don't like and then assume that every single trans person has the same opinion. This is how gender critical 'facts' are born.

Tara was a sex worker. The way sex workers advertise themselves does not reflect how they truly feel. It's depressing to have to explain that. Twice.

@jj1968

And by trans they meant anyone gender variant to some degree including trans men and non binary people. I do wonder why some people find it so hard to grasp that trans is an umbrella term that covers all kind of gender identities, of which only one is trans woman.

And another one is 'crossdresser' according to Stonewall.

Cross dressers have never been keen to have their penises removed.

It also shows completely how males cannot actually conceive that there are significant biological differences between men and women. And that sometimes, there is no escaping.

It is simply a way to minimise female's needs for safeguarding if some women have been known to 'fight back'. It is directly along the line of 'females commit sexual assault too'.

Yes, exactly this. As I said on another thread, I froze, but it was a moot point as I was completely overpowered.

And another one is 'crossdresser' according to Stonewall.

Yes, it's hardly surprising that women don't want to role play in male sexual fetishes.

Cross dressers have never been keen to have their penises removed.

All of them? How do you know? I've certainly read accounts of cross dressers talking about having ambiguous relationships with their bodies and gentials.

But cross dressers aren't trans women so it's a moot point. You were specifically talking about trans women.

But cross dressers aren't trans women so it's a moot point.

They are trans according to Stonewall. They are male and affecting to be women. It is of concern to many women that they should access our spaces. Trans organisations advocate for this.

Why are cross dressers considered to be under the trans umbrella if you don't think they are trans, jj?

@jj1968

Cross dressers have never been keen to have their penises removed.

All of them? How do you know? I've certainly read accounts of cross dressers talking about having ambiguous relationships with their bodies and gentials.

But cross dressers aren't trans women so it's a moot point. You were specifically talking about trans women.

I was replying to your post about Stonewall's enormous trans umbrella. Crossdressers are trans. Get over it.

I don't identify as anything, I just am.

The pronoun thing has been leaking into my job, you see them on email signatures, bulletins and even company social media (yes,we're that big) names. If I respond I address the person by their name (you/your) not their preferred pronouns. I refuse to put my preferences on my email because I think it's bloody obvious from my first name what sex I am.

I've certainly read accounts of cross dressers talking about having ambiguous relationships with their bodies and gentials.

But cross dressers aren't trans women so it's a moot point.

Aren't they sometimes 'transwomen' on the first part of their journey? Or as Debbie Hayton put it: There's an old joke in the community about transitioners who start out as occasional cross-dressers: “What’s the difference between a transvestite and a transsexual? About five years.”

So to correct my earlier post, some crossdressers do progress to being transsexual and wish to have their penises removed. But not all of them, and all of them are still under the enormous Stonewall trans umbrella.

Identifying as a women and being a women are the same thing. The only people who don't have a gender identity are people who don't think of themselves as men or women are nonbinary or agender people, and even then, they have a gender identity in the sense that atheists have a religion.

For people whose gender identity matches their genitals, this isn't something they ever really think about, any more than straight people used to think about their sexuality - it's just "normal."

If you answer the question "Are you a woman?" yes, then your gender identity is woman. That's what the words "gender identity" mean.

Gender expression and gender identity are not the same thing. "Acting like" a women doesn't mean you identity as a women.

@jj1968

Or, you can just Google trans girls.

Because trans sex work websites are the perfect place to find a representative sample of trans women. Just like pornhub is the best place to learn about what women are like.

I've said it before, but what a state.

Apart from the fact that it doesn't lead to a porn site, unless Twitter is a porn site, what difference does it make? Are you saying that trans sex workers aren't legitimate transwomen. That they should not be included in the statistics? Why on earth not?

Bloody exclusionary when you want to be, aren't you?

Identifying as a women and being a women are the same thing.

No, they are not. I am female. I have known I am female since I was old enough to notice there were two types of humans. I don't need to "identify as a woman", I simply am one. Only people who aren't women need to "identify".

Yanbu. I just am. My personality isn't defined by my sex. Sometimes my clothes are, if I wear a dress, but mostly I'm in jeans so not even that really. As I get older I don't even think I can say society treats me in a stereotypically female way though when I was younger that was more the case. But I've also been mates with a lot of guys and am not a girls girl.

It's such a load of crap based on sex stereotypes! I don't fit them all and I know nobody else who does. If my company asked me my gender identity I'd say non stereotypical (deliberately refuse to use nonsense terms) But my sex is female so please be grammatically correct.

You're superimposing the language of the ideology you personally subscribe to over people who don't believe it's possible for a male to be considered a woman, because a male necessarily fails the only criteria for being a woman. It's presumptuous.

X post, my post was to Dad