To think bad dog owners don't realise that they are bad dog owners?

[WayTooSoon]

Kind of a thread about lots of threads...

Every so often, threads appear on here saying someone's dog ran up to them/their child/their dog and how the owners respond with "it's ok, he's friendly" or similar. What usually follows is a load of posters saying "bad owners give us good owners a bad name". So is mumsnet entirely populated by "good owners" or are people oblivious to their own shortcomings as pet owners? Aibu to think that if someone is a bad owner, it seems likely that they have no idea that other people see them as a bad owner?

Are you now or have you ever been a "bad owner"?

It's easy to be critical of people, but it's about education

Exactly. The old saying "you don't know what you don't know" is very true when it comes to dogs, I think.

Dominance theory is still recommended even though it's been largely discredited, because some trainers still use it (Caesar Milan, and to some extent, Graeme Hall). Those people are on TV and lauded as dog whisperers! It's no wonder people think those ways of training a dog are acceptable when it's promoted on mainstream TV as being totally okay.

@sunflowersandbuttercups exactly. There is still so much of this on TV and people like Cezar and Graeme Hall appear to cure all of these dogs' issues in about 20 minutes. The reality is that there are no such quick fixes, just a lot of consistent, hard work. It's disappointing that this stuff is still aired.

[quote Stroppyshite]@sunflowersandbuttercups exactly. There is still so much of this on TV and people like Cezar and Graeme Hall appear to cure all of these dogs' issues in about 20 minutes. The reality is that there are no such quick fixes, just a lot of consistent, hard work. It's disappointing that this stuff is still aired.[/quote]
Totally agree with you!

I actually really admire Victoria Stilwell as her early "It's Me or the Dog" shows had some dominance training in them, and she's actually come out herself and said "we know better now, this is how I would do it today", which I think actually takes a lot of courage to do.

There is no quick fix for things like aggression or separation anxiety or resource guarding, yet these shows show a big man coming in, doing a bit of shouting and saying "no!" a lot and the problem seems to be solved

Unfortunately in a lot of cases, going up to an aggressive dog and getting in its' face would simply get you a nice dog bite instead, but they'd never show that on TV!

My dog makes me feel and look like a bad owner. We were doing brilliantly with training and recall etc when lockdown hit, she was about 5 months old. I really struggled to carry on the outdoors training whilst also keeping an eye on my 4dc. The result is now she is an absolute nightmare to walk. She pulls my arms off and growls and snaps at other dogs and will jump up at people. Her inside training has still gone really well and inside she's a star but I hate walking her because it's so difficult.

What we need is Barbara Woodhouse!

I think most bad dog ownership is due to ignorance and unrealistic expectations of what owning a puppy/dog actually entails. In an ideal world people would have to take a test on the subject before being allowed anywhere near a dog. No chance unfortunately with scum overbreeding their dogs and selling for big prices.

@SprogletsMum

My dog makes me feel and look like a bad owner. We were doing brilliantly with training and recall etc when lockdown hit, she was about 5 months old. I really struggled to carry on the outdoors training whilst also keeping an eye on my 4dc. The result is now she is an absolute nightmare to walk. She pulls my arms off and growls and snaps at other dogs and will jump up at people. Her inside training has still gone really well and inside she's a star but I hate walking her because it's so difficult.

Sadly, I think there are a lot of owners in your position. Lockdown has had a huge impact on socialisation opportunities for young dogs and puppies and I think we're going to see quite a lot of problems down the line as a result.

It's not anyone's fault, really, it's just what happens when dogs aren't given the right opportunities to socialise and meet other dogs.

@Yohoheaveho

Nothing worse than a healthy dog being PTS Nothing worse than that... really? Am I to assume that you are a vegan? Ok taking the time to train and rehabilitate a difficult dog takes patience and effort, these are positive qualities which we should all cultivate. I try to have patience and effort when it comes to my hobbies and interests but I do it for my own gratification I don't expect to be congratulated by others it's the same with having pets, it's a hobby, an indulgence, something you do for your own amusement.

Thousands of cats and dogs are PTS every year in this country because we can't find them homes. How does this make you feel? I find it extremely depressing.

I don't think you understand rescue work at all. It's not the same as having a hobby where you, for example, restore old cars or something. Of course there is some personal gratification in doing it, but the people there are doing it largely for the animals and not themselves.

Certainly when I took on rescues (I also used to foster cats), it was because I cared about these animals and wanted to do something for them.

Rehabilitating dogs takes a specific kind of person, not everyone can do it. You firstly need a suitable environment for that animal, sometimes this means no children or other animals in the home. You then require a level of knowledge, experience and skill in canine behaviour and training. I'm sure the people do get some kind of personal satisfaction out of it, but ultimately they do it for the animals and I wouldn't compare it to any old hobby.

@WayTooSoon YANBU. I don't know why (most) dog owners assume that everyone is going to be interested in their mutt, and wants the bloody thing jumping up them, and panting and licking, and fucking about around them.

'Oh he won't hurt you,' and 'he won't bite' and 'don't be so silly, he's only being friendly!' are just a few of the stupid bloody one-liners (some) dog owners come out with.

NEWSFLASH! I am not interested in your mangy mutt, and have no desire to have him anywhere near me, let alone jumping up me with his muddy paws when I have just gone out for a quiet and peaceful walk...

I wouldn't compare it to any old hobby
Of course you wouldn't....we all think that our interests are special
of course you think of it takes a special person to rehabilitate a difficult animal...we like to think we're special don't we!

Thousands of cats and dogs are PTS
Hundreds and thousands of sentient livestock are 'PTS' for human enjoyment
I don't see any difference 🤷‍♀️
We use animals for food, we use animals as pets to amuse us
It's all using animals to satisfy human appetites

What these threads show is how critical some parents are about dogs yet think nothing of their kids being a complete nuisance to others.

What some will tolerate of dogs or kids is very fast. For instance I don't mi do at all for dogs to come to me, even jump if they are still very young, learning and owners are apologetic.

But kids, screaming, shouting, bumping into you without a care and unable to mouth sorry, I find extremely annoying.

@Yohoheaveho

I wouldn't compare it to any old hobby Of course you wouldn't....we all think that our interests are special of course you think of it takes a special person to rehabilitate a difficult animal...we like to think we're special don't we!

I'm sorry I just don't understand how you can equate rescue work with any old hobby. These people are literally saving lives! If that's not worth something to you then we'll just have to agree to disagree.

I can't help but wonder if you take the same stance with people who foster troubled children though. Are they also persuing an interest or hobby through self gratification and out of self indulgence....

I very much mind if a dog jumps on me because I’m highly allergic and get a painful rash from even the briefest of contact. I don’t go to dog parks or even places especially popular with dog enthusiasts, but I should be safe to walk down a street or a mixed use trail.

I can't help but wonder if you take the same stance with people who foster troubled children though. Are they also persuing an interest or hobby through self gratification and out of self indulgence
Bingo, the old 'making dogs equal to children' manoeuvre✔️
Or are you just winding me up
hahaha 🤣🤭

Literally saving lives
It's a dog
You are winding me up aren't you 🤭

@Yohoheaveho

Thousands of cats and dogs are PTS Hundreds and thousands of sentient livestock are 'PTS' for human enjoyment I don't see any difference 🤷‍♀️ We use animals for food, we use animals as pets to amuse us It's all using animals to satisfy human appetites

I don't think one is a justification for the other. We can't force other people not to eat animals when it is perfectly legal to do so. But just because we cannot help farm animals in this country doesn't mean we should just give up completely. Don't do nothing because you can't do everything, do something.. anything!

Are you vegan? I'm getting the picture that you are either vegan and have just given up, or you really don't care for non human animals that much at all.

@Yohoheaveho

I can't help but wonder if you take the same stance with people who foster troubled children though. Are they also persuing an interest or hobby through self gratification and out of self indulgence Bingo, the old 'making dogs equal to children' manoeuvre✔️ Or are you just winding me up hahaha 🤣🤭

Literally saving lives
It's a dog
You are winding me up aren't you 🤭

So someone who stops a dog being PTS by giving that dog a suitable home is not as a consequence saving that animal's life?

Heartless.

Are you vegan? I'm getting the picture that you are either vegan and have just given up, or you really don't care for non human animals that much at all.

I very much suspect the latter.

But it really isn't just about you, @Yohoheaveho ; just because you don't understand why dogs (or cats for that matter) are important to other people, it doesn't mean that you're right and they're wrong.

Once again, I'm not speaking for myself, as I'm not a dog owner. But a pet dog will be a lifeline for a lot of vulnerable adults right now, who have no human contact at all. Just because you don't feel the same way, it doesn't make that fact any less valid. (I know how comforting my cats can be when I'm feeling low.)

Rescue dogs can make excellent pets, which is enough on its own to make the work of dog rescue centres worthwhile.

I'm sorry I just don't understand how you can equate rescue work with any old hobby. These people are literally saving lives! If that's not worth something to you then we'll just have to agree to disagree
Choosing to have a pet is essentially a hobby. It's something people do because it makes them happy.
Some people are happy because theyve got a pet and the pet adds something to their life.
Some people are happy because they train a puppy to compete in ability.
Some people are happy with a family pet who they invest time in.
Some people feel happy because they've got a rescue dog and they would rather have a rescue over a puppy.
Some people get a rescue dog because it allows them to act like some kind of canine saviour who needs a gold star and everyone to admire how brilliant they are, and anything other than fawning adoration is met with the usual emotive "but I save lives don't you know, I'm literally a hero".

@icesnowrain

I think dogs are an example where you have the world according to mumsnet and then the actual world.

In mumsnet world no dogs should ever be off lead unless they have 100% recall, and never go up to other people or dogs.

In the real world most people have their dogs off lead if they are friendly and non reactive to humans or animals and their recall will have varying degrees of success but very rarely 100%. Lots of dogs will go up to other dogs and humans and mostly there are no issues with that.

Yep this is totally my ‘real world’ experience of dog ownership. I live in a v doggy area, never have any issues like those that are seemingly wide spread in MN world 🤷🏻‍♀️

Yep this is totally my ‘real world’ experience of dog ownership. I live in a v doggy area, never have any issues like those that are seemingly wide spread in MN world
Same here! I had only once had a dog jumping in me in the last 20 years living
where I am and the owners couldn't have apologised any more if they tried. I do about 14k steps a day, in parks and countryside, so around dogs a lot and never have it witnessed all those trouble mners seem to experience weekly.

Yes we are all lying. Would you like to see the scars I obtained when another “friendly dog” attacked my dog and I intervened to save my dog. And would you like to know the details of my traumatised 8 year old who witnessed it happen. But yeah ok. This stuff never happens because it didn’t happen to you.

All dog owners should know not to let their off lead dog approach an on lead dog

I agree. However.... My dog always walks to heel to pass people, on lead dogs, cyclists, joggers etc. I get very annoyed when people with their dog on a lead (especially those useless, retractable leads) then allow their dog to wander over to my dog, who is walking straight past them! WTF is that all about? 🤷🏻‍♀️

I have found that if I make a point of recalling my dogs to get their leads on when I see others ahead, the other people tend to do the same. Once we pass, we unclip the dogs again.

I am not a fan of retractable leads and would happily see them be banned. I find them more dangerous than anything.

I have a one year old dog and this kind of thread and the harsh judgement of some dog owners has made me very upset and nervous around letting my dog off the lead atall. She’s a puppy, I’m training her, sometimes she doesn’t come back first call as she’s mid play. She definately doesn’t come back if she’s playing wit mh the fig of some git refusing to stop walking away from me whilst also shouting at me to get my dog.

My dog’s just been in heat and so lots of dogs off leads have come up to mine. And I totally managed to be kind and patience.

It’s not hard to be kind and patient