Am I being undermined by family & should my own & my childrens relationship with my Dad be conditional?

[StaySaneBeBonkers]

Should my Dad be making my & my childrens relationship with him conditional to us having contact with his wife who is jealous & controlling? Big falling out with her & I refuse to allow her selfish controlling ways that have impacted & limited my relationship with my dad over many years to continue with his grandchildren.

Forgive me for quoting Dr Phil but "you shouldn't put children in adult situations"

@StaySaneBeBonkers

Vivio :-

My problem with my siblings attending wedding reception was actually routed from a previous event shortly before that where my sister decided to hold a christening & said from the start that she understood my situation with stepmother & would only invite both my mum & dad. My mum agreed this was the right thing to do & her husband agreed (he disapproves of my Dads wifes behaviour too). The about 2 weeks before my sister tells me that actually stepmother is going (shes obviously been bullied into it by my dad not respecting again). Luckily I gadnt bought any outfits but was dismayed behind the scenes & my mum was livid & felt so uncomfortable, yet his wifes walking round feeling quite comfortable. I didn't go & the icing on the cake was receiving a godparents certificate in the post about 3 weeks later!!! To this day I am so tempted to post it back to her. The whole affair was dar more uncomfortable & upsetting for her own family than had parents partners respectfully stayed away. It was a no brainer for my mums husband but stepmother is something else. Then the reception I made clear to my siblings in advance would be the final straw & insult & just the attending is giving the completely wrong message to behaviours. They went anyway saying were all grown up & can make our own decisions. Fair enough but I have now disowned them & they cant accept it. They need to because I'm a grown up too, have my own feelings & the same expectations we did all once have & they no longer meet them. They are undermining & a liability to the cause I have been addressing. I will continue with my stand without them & its surprising it's taken years for them to really respect my decision is actually long term with the status quo.

Yes but who missed out? You did, your whole family got together to celebrate a new member and you didn’t go. That was your choice but have a think about who is really being hurt by your actions? Not your Dads wife, I imagine she’s more than happy with this state of affairs, she doesn’t even need to do anything - you are cutting yourself off from the family Of course you don’t have to see her but everyone else has chosen to so you can’t expect them to have exactly the same attitude and opinions as you

They are undermining & a liability to the cause I have been addressing.

This says it all.

Your siblings are not undermining you. They’ve just made a different decision, and they’re entitled to do that.

The only person in your scenario that needs to accept anything is you.

I will continue with my stand without them

Hopefully without badgering them all because they are just as entitled to take their position as you are.

Sounds like you’d all be better off if you just left them alone and had some therapy

@StaySaneBeBonkers

Sciurus83 -

My oldest son has noticed an absence of their other grandad - my father for 5 years, funny that dont you think? They then spend time writing a xmas card & my son the other day asks where his one was from him & can she see him now. So I explained...exactly what his reply was & what he did with mummy & daddy's card - the problem with that is? Or should I just explain that he's mystic lol .....

You reply in an age appropriate way rather than giving a small child an adult situation to deal with.

Lyralalala -

As previously mentioned all accepted by me - it's not by them!!! They badger me not the other way round. They need to respect my view & if necessary get therapy. Same with my Dad.

@StaySaneBeBonkers

Vivio :-

My problem with my siblings attending wedding reception was actually routed from a previous event shortly before that where my sister decided to hold a christening & said from the start that she understood my situation with stepmother & would only invite both my mum & dad. My mum agreed this was the right thing to do & her husband agreed (he disapproves of my Dads wifes behaviour too). The about 2 weeks before my sister tells me that actually stepmother is going (shes obviously been bullied into it by my dad not respecting again). Luckily I gadnt bought any outfits but was dismayed behind the scenes & my mum was livid & felt so uncomfortable, yet his wifes walking round feeling quite comfortable. I didn't go & the icing on the cake was receiving a godparents certificate in the post about 3 weeks later!!! To this day I am so tempted to post it back to her. The whole affair was dar more uncomfortable & upsetting for her own family than had parents partners respectfully stayed away. It was a no brainer for my mums husband but stepmother is something else. Then the reception I made clear to my siblings in advance would be the final straw & insult & just the attending is giving the completely wrong message to behaviours. They went anyway saying were all grown up & can make our own decisions. Fair enough but I have now disowned them & they cant accept it. They need to because I'm a grown up too, have my own feelings & the same expectations we did all once have & they no longer meet them. They are undermining & a liability to the cause I have been addressing. I will continue with my stand without them & its surprising it's taken years for them to really respect my decision is actually long term with the status quo.

You just sound worse and worse with each post.

Is this for real?

You are the problem OP.

You made a warzone out of your niece or nephew’s christening. It wasn’t about you. Whomever your sister chooses to invite is nothing to do with you. Or your mum. I mean, why was your mum livid? Sounds like you both feed off of each other.

Your siblings (and your father) are all adults who make their own decisions. You clearly can’t respect that.

They should be able to attend their stepsibling’s wedding without fear of your reaction.

They should be able to live their lives as they see fit, without fear of your reaction.

You are utterly toxic.

I think it might be good to shield your son from some of that. He didn't need to know the reply and that there was another fall out. This isn't your fault though, your father has been a crap Dad and Grandad. All you can do is control how you act in the situation and your feelings around it. If you make your feelings reliant on the actions of someone you know to have let you down time and time again there's no happiness there for you. He's not going to cut his wife out, he's not going to be the perfect Dad no matter how much you wish it was different (I wish it was different for you too). Happiness will come from acceptance, whichever way that turns out in terms of having a relationship with him though

Do you think you might also be fighting your mum's battles here? It's almost as if you have carried the torch of her feelings on and you have to be the one to represent her and show that anger towards your father/his wife on her behalf? You're the child, you don't have to do that. You can choose not to have a relationship, but it's not your job to get justice for your mum by causing all this strife. See your Dad on realistic terms, or don't, it's up to you. But you don't have to continue with all this upset, it must be very draining

@AnneLovesGilbert

How did she stop him paying your mum maintenance?

Have you ever had therapy? You’re very intense and fixated. It’s unhealthy.

This. You really shouldn't be involving your six year old either.

Your dad sounds like he did nowhere near enough when you were a child. He remains entirely responsible for those actions.
I'm not sure why you would expect a dad who has been half-arsed at best when you were a child to be any different when you're an adult. It sounds like your siblings have made peace with who he is and have decided that for the sake of a relationship with their dad they don't need to create drama and point score.

You're in adulthood now and sound like hard work OP. Even claims of trying to reconcile are tainted with you having to get a dig at his wife. It sounds like you're trying to turn everything into a battleground and view anyone who doesn't hold your view as hostile forces.

Thanks for your post Vivio. I understand you have a difference of opinion on this but I think you have a real issue with having your own opinions of morals other than to stand for total freedom at any cost. You sound like one of those more singular minded people who all on the surface get along but dig down past the fickle level & there's not much there. Hence that mindset means you are effectively willing to attend any & everything at any cost. That's fine too but not a world I personally want to live in. Many do & you would probably fit in perfectly with my siblings & dad 8-) I dont, the holiday & behaviour I experienced I would be surprised if anyone could conclude that was going pleasantly. As far as I'm concerned if your not meeting up for a fun & happy time then you shouldnt be there. That goes for the christening. I didnt lose out, that's why I made that choice. It was going to be unpleasant & uncomfortable & my sister would admit it was because a person who stirs up trouble attended it inappropriately. Simples.

@StaySaneBeBonkers

Thanks for your post Vivio. I understand you have a difference of opinion on this but I think you have a real issue with having your own opinions of morals other than to stand for total freedom at any cost. You sound like one of those more singular minded people who all on the surface get along but dig down past the fickle level & there's not much there. Hence that mindset means you are effectively willing to attend any & everything at any cost. That's fine too but not a world I personally want to live in. Many do & you would probably fit in perfectly with my siblings & dad 8-) I dont, the holiday & behaviour I experienced I would be surprised if anyone could conclude that was going pleasantly. As far as I'm concerned if your not meeting up for a fun & happy time then you shouldnt be there. That goes for the christening. I didnt lose out, that's why I made that choice. It was going to be unpleasant & uncomfortable & my sister would admit it was because a person who stirs up trouble attended it inappropriately. Simples.

The only one who appears to be stirring up trouble is you.

Honestly OP, you are projecting all of your own behaviours onto everyone else. Including me. This is why I don’t think counselling would do you any favours. You have zero self awareness.

Lola smiles-

I agree with the first half of your post but just want to add that they havent had the same things I have directed at them. So it's very easy to take their stand, I would find it easy other than the fact that I'm a person who would not just stand by when something is wrong & let it continue because it's much easier to look the other way. That's what I mean by moral compass. Live with integrity to the people in your life or that your around or else its false & fickle on a certain level.

OP im a parent in the same situation as your mother was. However you do seem to come across just as badly as your father does. You cannot nor should you try to control a grown adult. Your father is quite clearly never going to put you before his wife no matter what you do.

OP, despite the fact that many many posters have pointed out that some of your behaviour might also be problematic you appear to have very little insight and continue to double down. This could be part of the problem. You've made it very clear to both the family members who don't fully agree with you and to everyone reading this that it's your way or the highway.

Just wanted to add that I think theres jealousy with certain aspects of my life. I have 1 toxic side - my own family & the other my husbands side a very happy moral family who have kept things simple. I think with one sister & my brother they resent aspects of this that they dont have. I'm sad for them but they should grow a backbone & actually start trying to improve their own instead of making do with second best which is actually worse than none. Their all kidding themselves & continuing the cycle.

Do you have friends?

OP I think it might be helpful for you to separate out your anger to your dad and your anger to his wife. Your dad has clearly let you down a lot over the years but this is his responsibility not hers.

Then you need to accept that your dad sees things differently to you and you need to try and stop getting him to see things your way. This is not to say you just have to accept him doing whatever he wants but once you know how he will likely respond/ behave you then decide whether to continue a relationship with him or not. He is clearly saying that he will only see you if you're willing to also see his wife. I get how painful that is as my dad said the same. It was really clear that he would never ever support me in any way whatsoever if it put him out even a little or put his wife out even a little. There is no loyalty and there is no care. It's sad watching other people have caring families and knowing that mine isn't. But you can't change this just by keeping on trying to explain to people how wrong their point of view is. Not you know what your dad is offering it's time to decide if that's a relationship to continue or not.

In terms of your children I also understand the delicate balance of how to discuss relationship issues with young people. I would have said nothing about your card as your kids did not need to know that. My kids do ask when their grandfather never calls though and I want them to understand that this is about him not them so I don't fudge that too much. I just say that not everyone is interested in strong relationships with family but others are and then I reassure them that the model they see for grandparent relationships is not what ours will have to be in the future. We talk about how friends might relate to their grandparents as well so they can see alternatives.

Now they are young teens/ heading there I am also, when it comes up, starting to gently introduce some more history to them e.g. my parents physical violence to me and my siblings. There is also sexual abuse in the history (not from my dad be he did not want to hear about it in order to protect us - told us not to be silly). This I don't think they are ready to hear yet. We need to be very careful about when we share things when relationships are this complex and damaging

OP

So what has been directed at you that hasn't been directed at them? Or more specifically, what has been directed at you that hasn't been directed at them AND that hasn't come following you doing something to deliberately provoke conflict with his wife?

I knew someone once who would pride themselves on 'not being fake' but they were always experiencing conflict in life. The reality was that they were highly confrontational and would try to justify their rudeness behaviour as honesty and claim being civil is fake. When their attitude didn't get them far, they convinced themeves they were a faultless victim and nobody understood their experiences. We did. We just had no interest in yet another needless drama caused by a one woman crusade.

It sounds like you've picked your battle lines and have decided that you have a better moral compass than your siblings, and so you are the perpetual victim, which might be making you blind to the way your own actions are fuelling this situation.

@StaySaneBeBonkers

Just wanted to add that I think theres jealousy with certain aspects of my life. I have 1 toxic side - my own family & the other my husbands side a very happy moral family who have kept things simple. I think with one sister & my brother they resent aspects of this that they dont have. I'm sad for them but they should grow a backbone & actually start trying to improve their own instead of making do with second best which is actually worse than none. Their all kidding themselves & continuing the cycle.

What you said to your 6 year old isn’t breaking the cycle.

So now not only is your stepmother jealous, but your siblings are too?

Come on.

Sorry meant to also add you need to do the same with your siblings. These situations are so complex and messy that to expect them just to do the same as you in order to 'support you' is too simplistic. They are managing in their own way and with that being as it is you need to decide what sort of relationship you want with them. Stopping talking about what you wished they would do does not mean they've won, it kind of means you have as you're banging your head against a brick wall trying to get some specific version of support from them which they can't offer. Maybe as they are arseholes but maybe because in these sorts of situations there are a million different ways which people might use to cope.

@StaySaneBeBonkers

Thanks for your post Vivio. I understand you have a difference of opinion on this but I think you have a real issue with having your own opinions of morals other than to stand for total freedom at any cost. You sound like one of those more singular minded people who all on the surface get along but dig down past the fickle level & there's not much there. Hence that mindset means you are effectively willing to attend any & everything at any cost. That's fine too but not a world I personally want to live in. Many do & you would probably fit in perfectly with my siblings & dad 8-) I dont, the holiday & behaviour I experienced I would be surprised if anyone could conclude that was going pleasantly. As far as I'm concerned if your not meeting up for a fun & happy time then you shouldnt be there. That goes for the christening. I didnt lose out, that's why I made that choice. It was going to be unpleasant & uncomfortable & my sister would admit it was because a person who stirs up trouble attended it inappropriately. Simples.

It takes a staggering lack of self awareness, and manners, to be so rude and judgemental toward people taking the time to reply to you.

Why did you even bother with the thread if anyone who doesn’t agree with you 100% is so wrong?

Yes & ironically they have made points to me about the whole affair before I do knowing me & of my family over many years (decades). There are other issues these people are also aware of like my sister (full of self importance & again bizarrely assuming me to be being awkward) trying to frog March me on text message to ho in the loft, while 7 months pregnant & having major blog work done to get a jumperoo she'd said I could keep for my brother to borrow. She didnt want to wait the 2 weeks that the blog work would take to finish when the loft would be more organized again. "She should not have to wait for her stuff". I sent my builder up & showed her text to him to explain. He thought she was mental, totally unreasonable & he couldn't find it because it was buried under many other household things moved for bldg work. It is these people who need the help! My siblings are all highly paid professionals (whom I'm proud of for their achievements) but have completely lost all moral compass & become nodding dogs. Very sad. Didnt want the jumperoo anyway lol so she was welcome to it. Especially as she wanted it .....that much ;-) p.s she had been told at least twice by me the bldg work was imminent but too self absorbed to absorb the info!

When everyone except you is in the wrong then it’s really time to start looking in the mirror very closely

OP, really. It's you. Probably not all you, but a good chunk. You can't just classify other people into moral and not moral based on whether they agree with you. Your reality isn't pure truth, other people have their truth and that is valid. You are setting yourself up for a lifetime of conflict with this attitude.