Am I being undermined by family & should my own & my childrens relationship with my Dad be conditional?

[StaySaneBeBonkers]

Should my Dad be making my & my childrens relationship with him conditional to us having contact with his wife who is jealous & controlling? Big falling out with her & I refuse to allow her selfish controlling ways that have impacted & limited my relationship with my dad over many years to continue with his grandchildren.

I think it's very hard to judge when people don't know what behaviour by your step-mum your referring to.

I do feel your pain though. I don't get on with my step-mum and it all came to a head about 5 years ago. Step-mum was vile to me verbally and I did try and have an adult conversation afterwards which she refused to engage in. I thought fine we will just tolerate each other for the sake of my dad and the broader family when we see each other. She, however, continues to act like she is family to me. Sends me emails updating me about her kids (I've met them like twice) and asking questions which given our lack of relationship I find intrusive.

I think my dad wants to white-wash my mother out of the equation even though she died a few years ago. He acts as if she is my mother or in any meaningful way like a mother. She's not. I don't like her and I don't trust her. For us though we can be civil when we see each other (it's not often though I never see my dad without her as they are very co-dependent). I think things would be easier if she accepted that we are not family and we are not friends. Goodness know why she keeps pretending otherwise given the hatred that she showed a few years ago.

Anyway, I know people say don't push or you might lose, but honestly if things with the step-mother have been that traumatic maybe you have to push. And if your dad chooses not to have contact with you maybe that's, on balance, not a loss. Only you can know.

OP I dont think you've come across very well but I know exactly where you're coming from my 'D'F & I were very close until he remarried. His wife had it in for me and my siblings from day 1 because she wanted it to just be the two of them. I bore the brunt of her behaviour, I don't know why. After years of bullying from her, some very well hidden and some blatant I had enough and said I no longer wanted her in my life. The abuse ramped up for about a year, my father joined in too, and it was the worst year of my life. I begged my father to still see me and my child but he wouldn't see us without her even though he told me she hates me and my DH. In the end they both realised that I wouldn't be bullied or controlled and my father has nothing to do with us. Doesn't know my children but I'm so much happier now. I no longer have a constant sick feeling and dread their calls to find out what I've (unknowingly) done to upset her.
I swore to myself that she wouldn't do to my children what she did to me and I feel happy that I have successfully protected them from her. Same as you, my siblings despise her but have never been on the receiving end of her treatment as relentlessly as I was.
Before it happened to me I didnt realise how common it is for fathers to drop their children to keep a new wife happy.
You've got to do what feels right for you and trust your gut instincts. If people haven't been through this they won't understand, I didnt until it happened to me.

Reply to - user234987653 post saying the below:-

You sound selfish and immature.

He deserves a life outside of being your father.
You don't get to dictate who he wants to love.

My reply to you is I am not nor have ever tried to dictate who he loves. Why have you made that statement .... my view is that my nor my childrens relationship should ever be conditional over someone else who has continually interfered. My father in law was with me on a rare occasion my Dad was helping me with a dangerous light in my bungalow I had just bought (my dad being an electrician) & he commented to me he couldn't believe hearing my dads wife on the other end chasing him up asking how long he was going to be! He only lived 10 mins down the rd. At that time I had no issues with him & the status quo was how it had been for decades which I'd just tolerated & been understanding passing my father in laws comment off. Is definately wrong though & controlling. I had just moved to this place & I also needed help rewiring 2 lights in my hallway & my dad did me a drawing of wire colours what to put with what & clues of which fuses to switch off on my fuse board & left it that I could do this myself. My mum was livid & couldn't believe he would do that as a father & risk me electrocuting myself. At the time, again I just shrugged it off & did do it myself but looking back & now having my own children cant believe he did that!

The wording I used in the quote you posted I could see could be taken the wrong way & in fairness I did write that with anger but in truth he very much married the woman who made HIM happy but nobody else. Especially when he had 4 children aged 6 - 12yrs old at the time he should have been considering first. The priority is not them & their interests but the childrens. It staggers me how many adults will stick up for adults who have made wrong decisions that its ultimately consideration for them & sod the children. We are all adults now agreed but that doesnt mean relationships aren't to be respected when there has been a falling out & the wifes behaviour is at fault. That's my point. Thank you for taking the time though to comment.

By the way the big final straw falling out happened 4 years ago when my dad finally arranged a very long overdue family holiday - actually with his adult children. Him, his wife & her 2 young sons went away every year abroad on holiday - in fact they got married in Hawaaii (without us 4 children), all the while he paid my mother £4.50 per wk for 4 children under child support agency's watch too (kept deliberately "changing his circumstance" to frustrate having to pay my mum any more than bare minimum). We all carried on loving him while my mum had to work multiple jobs (illegally at the time to put food on plates & make ends meet). 3 yrs ago (a few years after this big bust up which I will explain in a mo) the child support agency wrote to my mum saying she was still owed £4k by my dad. No shit we had been living in poverty for a long while, in fact my whole school yrs until I went straight out to work full time to support my mum & younger siblings! When they went to take payment from his pay cheque (baring in mind my brother who's youngest was now 35 & we would have starved to death literally long ago) my dad still refused to pay & has got out of it again!!!!!! My siblings were very disrespectful & rude to my mum saying after all these years gone by she shouldnt take the money. That's the calibre of siblings I have 8-)

As I say the final falling out was on this family holiday we all went on hiring a large house with a pool etc. My siblings decided on my Dads birthday they/we would all cook everyone a cooked breakfast before going out for the day. My dads wife was very jealous about this & accordingvto my dad felt "left out" even though there was nothing stopping her coming down to join in. She was then openly rude to me after my simple questioning of where the recycling was kept in this kitchen. My dad admitted she had an attitude although when I explained this to my sister dear step mother walked past the kitchen dr & stormed up to me denying she had any problem & that I was the one causing trouble. Dad had a go at me then as I'd packed my, my husbands & my 9 month old sons belongings into my car asked me to stay. It was too late the damage was done & certainly mine, if nit everybody's holiday was ruined. Then when I got home 2 months later we had pottery made for all grandparents. When I contacted my dad & suggested me & him meet up to clear the air & to give him the grandad mug with my sons prints on his reply to me "it will take more than a mug to smooth this one over, until you apologise to my wife I wont be seeing you". He has since contacted me in October & we'd been discussing & sharing photos of the garden pond I've just built & a visiting Wagtail! ;-) all conversations nice & then I sent him only a xmas card from me & hubby & a grandad card written by my sons. My card said "let's not let outside interferences ever effect our relationship again" & his reply was thanks for the boys card but yours is going in the bin where it belongs! His wife has controlled him AGAIN & I've sent him packing for good. I think this is perfectly reasonable under the circumstances & was very interested to see what external unbiased people's take on it is. My mum completely agrees with me, my siblings themselves have shown me contempt & disrespect several times on different things & have always refused to discuss this big falling out but keep contacting me to meet for a cuppa saying to put this behind us. I am not prepared to unless I have acknowledgements of errors of judgements from them. To this day they dont see them. I cant move on from this because their behaviour as siblings to me & treatment I received at the house was disgusting & very wrong.

•let's not let outside interferences ever effect our relationship again

Referring to his wife in such a manner was just stoking the fire. Especially when he’d reached out to you in October and you were both communicating ok without mentioning her. Being outright rude isn’t going to make you look any better and was always just going to bring it all up again.

Lyralalala:-

I guess this is true but completely fair enough & levelling with my dad - one to one- he should have agreed with me & thanked me for bothering after his behaviour for the last 5 years & refusing to get to know my son growing up & not even meeting my other 3.5 year old son. I've kept all my correspondence from him for my children to see if they ever question the situation & his actions. The truth never lies which is why I'm holding on to it for evidence 8-) my father on law has kept the mug refused by my dad too so dont think it will take much explaining for my sons to come to their own conclusion- that their grandad is not much of one. Luckily my husbands parents are lovely & have commented they would never dream of behaving in such a way to their children it cannot be justified.

Being a father is not his priority and never will be, he made that very clear by failing to support you for all those years. I know it's difficult because you only get one dad, but you should distance yourself from both of them to prevent further disappointment.

I guess this is true but completely fair enough & levelling with my dad - one to one- he should have agreed with me & thanked me for bothering

I would have been genuinely staggered and watching for passing unicorns if that had been his response or reaction to your comment about his wife.

He’s obviously been a crappy dad and taken no responsibility for his childrens lives when you were completely dependent children so I think you have been flogging a dead horse in hoping for better as an adult, when you need a father less. Best to leave it, and him.

@StaySaneBeBonkers

If he makes a choice not to see me without his wife that is wrong. I am his daughter & his wife is nothing to do with me - someone he chose to marry. It's not for him to bring anyone into family who is not welcome. Him being with her is his choice. Equally him being a Dad was also his choice (first). That is to be respected under all circumstances especially when justified. Not just for his convenience & his own interests. What if I want his time confidentially? Him being my father does not make his wife equal to my mother whom I would also choose to confide.

I was on your side with the first post. The follow up makes you sound very dictatorial and controlling. Your way or the high way.

Have you expressed these views to your father?

I think you need to either accept him and all his personal failings and his wife or let go of the relationship.

It isn't healthy for you to be having a relationship with him when you are carrying so much anger and upset, as well as this need to control. So you need to find a way of letting go of the anger and find acceptance or lose the relationship.

He sounds like he was an awful dad when you were growing up, so I understand the hurt.

Your father doesn't sound like a good person. The fact that he left his kids to grow up in poverty says a lot about his character. Whatever the rights and wrongs of this situation I think you're wasting your time hoping he is suddenly going to wake up and be a loving father and grandfather.

OP I'd just leave him to it and focus your energy on the people in your life who do treat you well.

Sorry to hear about the challenges in your childhood, this is clearly what is affecting your stance on your dad and his wife. He is not going to react in the way you think he should. You can’t control him, his wife or your siblings - you can only control your reaction to them. Your walking out of the holiday and writing the card are not actions that move this situation along in your interests at all, you’re trying to get a reaction from your dad that will never happen.

Do you want to spend the rest of your life fighting, feeling angry and resentful? Time to find some peace with the situation, find a way to communicate without raising your blood pressure. You might need some independent professional advice to achieve this. Good luck OP.

There are two issues here. The first is him being a shit father while you were growing up. Keeping you all poor. Dodging paying CM. What an asshole. You have every right to be angry at him for that.

However, the way you are treating his wife is disgusting. Yes, he is your father, but that is not his only role in life. You don't need to like her but if YOU want a relationship with your father then YOU need to accept that they are together. Being so openly and actively hostile towards her is awful. Your Christmas message was wicked. You need to grow up.

The the child maintenance, that was his fault and nothing to do with her. Why are you trying to blame her for everything? When he re-married how could he know his kids wouldn’t get on with her?

It sounds like you’ve tried to exclude her time and time again. Eg addressing an XMas card to only him and not her is very rude, they’re married and it doesn’t matter if you and your mum loathe her.

Why didn’t you pay an electrician to re-wire your lighting instead of relying on your dad to do it? Maybe his wife called because she needed him urgently.

Storming out of your dad’s birthday weekend with your family, all because you and his wife argued over the recycling and she admitted to feeling left out? Had any effort to include her been made? I think flouncing off was very childish and probably ruined the birthday celebration for your dad as well as everyone else.

If you’re not prepared to accept her as a family member after all these years I don’t think having a relationship with your dad or him being a grandpa to your sons is likely.

What @timeisnotaline said.

Father who didn’t put his children first who were dependant on him will not put his grown up children first. Never.

OP, you’re flogging a dead horse. Your father made it clear that his wife comes first in the pecking order.

I’m shocked (not) that he paid measly £4.5 for his kids while holding a profession that pays very well. Absolute bastard thing to do.

Please cut your losses and put your family first- your DH, DC and PIL if they are decent. It’s difficult to understand why people behave this way and cut their children off but it’s their choice.

Sadly speaking from experience.My father called me years ago to say that he didn’t wish to stay in touch. I know it was instigated by his partner as she wanted him all to himself. He died last year and his family had to arrange the funeral.

We have similar situation with FIL and his wife- her family is put on pedestal while our is suppose to accept the crumbs. We said “no” to such shitty treatment and are NC now for a few years. It’s bliss,no dramas, demands and insults.

Good luck. Keep the good people in your life and don’t waste your emotional energy on arseholes, whether they’re related or not.

*all to herself

Kellyjonesleathertrousers:-

I completely agree with you & have been doing this for nearly 5 years. Anger very much there that is put to bed, other than when my family keep prodding me by text to meet up & pretend their actions never happened & sending me cards that they had advised me we shouldn't be bothering if we dont see eachother. Complete mixed signals from them & it has been them all not respecting my stance on things (that yes I actually meant). After 4 years went by I think the penny dropped that I can survive without them all & I really do feel that with their current attitudes & behaviours to date I am happier & less stressed unfortunately without them. Also my dad asking on text if we should make up but not acknowledging his disgusting decisions. What is positive is that other than my wider family issue, my own family is very happy & we can actually go on holiday & have unpleasantness & no jealousy going on. The seemingly spiteful behaviour people have made assumptions of 8n my view is karma & my dad getting nothing more than he deserves & his wife. I have been prepared to reason with people who do genuinly acknowledge their own errors of judgement but there is a culture of people now that dont think they need to. People dont usually take the stressful options but I decided to stand up to it & do something about it. My dad tried to point out that I'm outnumbered whilst telling me he always stood up to bullies. Hes the bully & the whole numbers of people thing has always been his mantra in life...to discredit anyone who stands up to him or his wife. Nobody heard his wife in the kitchen at the time, it was just me & her tidying up yet apparently I've caused trouble & am patronized by my own family of all people! My sister heard my brother being rude to me unprovoked so at least someone did a knowledge something but still said nothing at the time.

To embarassingadmissions :- yes I would have been genuinly staggered too but it was worth a try, I gave him the opportunity to put her in her long awaited place ;-)

To MissHarveySpectreV -

Couldn't agree with your email more 8-) this behaviour & culture is going to stop & is not being passed down to the next generation on my watch. Even complete favouritism between my Dads grandchildren (he has 9) & hers (she has 2). Gifts given to hers but none for ours. Absolutely disgusting & acknowledged by my siblings.

Regarding the mantra on some posts that this is in some way a game that I've lost - to the contrary - I think it's my Dad that knows he's lost (& stepmum who is clearly not happy he contacted me & has become aware through a xmas card!) & I've delivered the home truths to him I regret not doing years ago. I just hope he gets the hint now & actually accepts that I really mean it & if he is to ever contact me again then it is to respect our relationship & accept I do have a choice & have made a choice to not have her unpleasantness ever inflicted upon my family again. If he ever comes knocking on my door after losing her I'll be reminding him of his priorities & actions & treating him with the same.

Wow - poor Dad and his wife.

Also why wouldn't your siblings want to go to their step siblings wedding. Maybe they see them as part of the family unit they are in. They do not have to conform to your view.

You have very clearly made up your mind that you do not want your stepmother in your life and that is, of course, your choice. But it does not I'm afraid then give you the right to dictate how your father behaves. You are coming across as a spolied princess and all that your lengthy rambling posts are doing, as far as I am concerned, is reinforcing this further. If you are unable to accept your stepmother that your dad clearly loves then why would he want to deal with your entitled behaviour.

This is one of those situations that is hard to see unless you are going through it.

My dad had a girlfriend who was 11 years younger than him and an absolute cow. She had to be the number 1 in his life (and man, she certainly was) and was very jealous of his kids. I tried very hard not to let his weakness for her ruin our relationship as he was getting on, and lived in Spain and I didn't want any regrets when he died. Sadly he passed away in October and although our relationship was tainted I'm so glad I didn't fall out with him.

However, it was difficult and I don't understand how he could let a woman come between him and his kids but he did. He was so desperate for her not to dump him....as she did frequently....that basically what she said went. The irony is that now he has gone she wants to keep in touch, to call me crying about how she misses him blah blah blah. I think she is suffering with guilt for behaving like a cow to him.

But OP, at the end of the day it is your dads choice to bring anyone he wants to into the family and it is your choice not to like her. My dad was desperate for us to like his partner but it was my right not to, as we never really saw anything in her to like. However, I was always polite, always respectful and accepting and I would never have put conditions on it. Your dad is stuck in the middle, it's a shitty place to be.

She got him wrapped around her finger. I really have an issue with partners who impose (directly or through emotional blackmail) who their OH can see or not.

Surely when there is such conflict, the best thing to do all around is to agree to see eachother separately. What is there to gain from imposing she be around when you won't feel comfortable being yourself nor would she or him.

What is she do scared of? That you'll turn him against her?

Your dad is weak for not telling her that fell see you and kids without her by his side.

@StaySaneBeBonkers

Lyralalala:-

I guess this is true but completely fair enough & levelling with my dad - one to one- he should have agreed with me & thanked me for bothering after his behaviour for the last 5 years & refusing to get to know my son growing up & not even meeting my other 3.5 year old son. I've kept all my correspondence from him for my children to see if they ever question the situation & his actions. The truth never lies which is why I'm holding on to it for evidence 8-) my father on law has kept the mug refused by my dad too so dont think it will take much explaining for my sons to come to their own conclusion- that their grandad is not much of one. Luckily my husbands parents are lovely & have commented they would never dream of behaving in such a way to their children it cannot be justified.

He was never going to agree with you that his wife was an “outside interference”. Nor was sticking it in a Christmas card, sent to their home, after a couple of months of talking “levelling with him one to one”. It was deliberately provocative to get a reaction.

Your father is never going to start slagging off his wife to you. He’s also never going to accept your stance that she’s not part of the family. She’s his wife.

Your stepmum may be controlling but so are you can you honestly not see that .christ on a bike the thing with the xmas card was just childish and you know it .you seem somehow to be blaming her for the fact you grew up in poverty that is his fault not hers .

Expecting anything decent from him has been your mistake when he's never been a good dad, who prioritised his children.

You don't need him in your life now, so just be done with him.

When you don't love someone, you won't feel such pain when they pass away. I've just lost my mum and if I didn't have such a close relationship with her, I wouldn't be in such pain and grieving as I am.

You don't need him at this stage of your life. Considering his past behaviour, I'm surprised you want him in your life at all, as he is all about himself. SELFISH.

All the best to you anyway.

@StaySaneBeBonkers

If he makes a choice not to see me without his wife that is wrong. I am his daughter & his wife is nothing to do with me - someone he chose to marry. It's not for him to bring anyone into family who is not welcome. Him being with her is his choice. Equally him being a Dad was also his choice (first). That is to be respected under all circumstances especially when justified. Not just for his convenience & his own interests. What if I want his time confidentially? Him being my father does not make his wife equal to my mother whom I would also choose to confide.

Why would you say “It’s not for him to bring anyone into family who is not welcoming”? That sounds like you are trying to dictate your fathers life which is just not on, that’s something a jealous immature 10 year old would do.

But really, why do you have to see her, why can’t you see your father without seeing his wife if you dislike her so much? It would be completely inappropriate for you to go to (say) their joint house when you don’t like her, but meet him elsewhere. I can’t see why she’d want to spend any time with you either if this is how you talk about her.

It all sounds like a silly teen drama or a daytime soap. You’re an adult, your father is an adult, but you’re not behaving like one. Chill a bit and stop being so fixated on your stepmother. It all sounds so needy and competitive, like some sort of competition with no middle ground and all about one-upmanship and who did this and who said what, unhealthy and exhausting.

And so fixated on past resentments. Yet you have holidays together when you all seem to be plotting someone’s next downfall or getting shirty about who cooked breakfast. Just OMG.