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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

..to think Stonewall should not be involved with schools?

999 replies

ConcernedMum100 · 04/02/2021 14:02

AIBU to think Stonewall should not be involved with schools...

Historically, Stonewall has done amazing work and led the way for equality. However, over recent years their priority seems to be a different sort of activism, which has caused many of their original supporters to abandon them.

I want to stress that I am very much in favour of primary schools teaching about diversity and different types of families including same sex parents, etc. I believe that's very important. I do however have reservations with Stonewall for various reasons, as follows:

-Its school resources with regards to transgenderism and gender identity, such as An Introduction to Supporting LGBT children, breach the Department of Education’s guidelines in many ways, including the sexist and regressive suggestion that children enjoying clothes or toys typically associated with the opposite sex is a sign they may be transgender. The resources also say that children are given a label at birth (they mean their sex is recorded) and that sometimes this label will have been wrong. They are not referring to the tiny percentage of babies born with a DSD, but children whose gender identity is supposedly different to their sex. Whatever that means. The resources also say that a school should not tell the child’s parents about their gender identity if the child does not want them to. Which means they’re suggesting schools change a child’s name and pronouns without informing the parents. Seeing as they communicate that children with gender dysphoria are often vulnerable and even suicidal, this seems very irresponsible.

-Its stance on child safeguarding. Stonewall have been very clear that they disagree with the High Court’s ruling which concluded that children under the age of 16 are highly unlikely to be able to consent to puberty blockers. They are in favour of medicating children as young as 10 years old, who are experiencing gender dysphoria and say they want to live as the opposite sex. This follows research showing puberty blockers do not have a positive effect on the children’s mental health, but do cause issues with brain development and bone density. Nearly 100% of children who have taken puberty blockers go on to take cross sex hormones which will likely lead to loss of sexual function and infertility. There has been an alarming increase in children identifying as trans over the last few years and the reasons for this is unknown, and there has been no research to understand the apparent strong link between autism and gender dysphoria, nor homosexuality and gender dysphoria.

-Its stance on women’s single sex spaces. Via both Tweeting and their school resources, Stonewall have made clear they believe women and girls do not have the right to single sex spaces at time when they may be vulnerable, because they believe males who identify as women (the prerequisite of which is to declare themselves a woman-no need for any medical treatment or diagnosis) should be treated as females in every aspect of life. This means access to women’s communal changing rooms, prisons, hospital wards, toilets, and rape shelters, to name a few examples.

-Its stance on women’s sports. Stonewall disagreed with World Rugby’s decision to prevent transwomen competing in women’s rugby. This decision was reached by World Rugby because they found that to include TW in the women’s teams would be unfair and unsafe (in increased risk to the women on the team by at least 20-30%) Stonewall appear to believe (and say) that inclusion comes above all else, even the safety of women and girls and their right to fair competition.

I don’t feel comfortable that an organisation with these highly controversial and political viewpoints has access to primary school children, whether it’s via face to face sessions, training school staff, or learning resources.

Of course Stonewall are not the only organisation which has these worrying beliefs. However, they are the biggest and most well funded. They are also listed on the Department of Educations “experts” page, despite breaching its own guidelines, which I think is wrong and also makes it very difficult for parents to complain to schools.

What are your thoughts?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
Whatsnewpussyhat · 04/02/2021 19:43

Saying gay is more a medical term almost sounds like it's a condition than can be treated.

Whatsnewpussyhat · 04/02/2021 19:45

I meant homosexual

JustAmotherOne · 04/02/2021 19:45

@Ijustreallywantacat

Why is there suddenly tonnes of these these threads on AIBU? Do I have to block AIBU too? Sad

YABVVVU.

Because the FWR posters have decided to colonise AIBU.

Literally

There is a thread over in FWR with the regulars on that board deciding together what to post about next in their mission to bring the FWR topics of choice in to AIBU.

And threads discussing and picking apart the posts and posters who disagree with the FWR dogma.

VestaTilley · 04/02/2021 19:46

Agree completely. It’s become a men’s rights organisation, nothing more. And it’s creepy AF.

chestnutSquash · 04/02/2021 19:47

Safeguarding our children is really important. I am very suspicious of people saying we should not be allowed to discuss it.

BrumBoo · 04/02/2021 19:47

where dissenting views are very much unwelcome

@MintyMabel

When it comes to gender debate, the 'dissenting views only want to scream 'terf, transphobe, bigot' with zero reasoning to their view. Over and over again, I have seen those who are GC or just have concerns about gender ideology ask those who believe these matters are not worth debate, why gender should be allowed to have an unquestionably place in society (despite the glaring huge issues with the belief system) and none can answer factually, intelligently or using an ounce of critical thinking skills.

Pinkfreesias · 04/02/2021 19:48

YANBU at all, OP. Stonewall have changed beyond recognition.

Have you been over to the women's rights board? There's loads of discussion going on there that I think you'd like.

AStudyinPink · 04/02/2021 19:49

If just one person can explain to me (coherently and without circular ‘reasoning’) what they mean when they say TWA(literally)W, I promise not to post on the topic again.

gardenbird48 · 04/02/2021 19:50

@MintyMabel

Meh. The Church of Scotland also have unfettered access to our kids here in Scotland. We understand if we need to provide balance to what is taught at school, we will do so.
does the Church of Scotland encourage children to start off down a path that can end in lifelong medication and surgery?

Unfortunately a number of teachers didn't get the 'provide balance' memo and have jumped into affirming kids enthusiastically. There are social media forums with distressed parents dealing with children where the teachers have totally overstepped the mark and are socially transitioning their children in some cases without their knowledge. This is encouraged by the training.
Once a vulnerable teenager has been affirmed socially and their new identity has been announced and it has become their 'thing', it makes it more difficult to 'unannounce' it and they are on a path that some may end up taking as far as hormone treatment etc.

I think that Stonewall (or it might have been Mermaids) actually offer to help a child get a referral to a Gender clinic (who practise affirmation only) without the permission of the parents. There is certainly an unacceptable blurring of the boundaries of parental responsibility and it is causing problems for parents and children.

I read recently that homophobic bullying is on the rise and there are ongoing claims re other types of bullying.

As a very minimum I would suggest that the schools (and businesses, local authorities, police, CPS, BBC, NHS, most government departments, google, Ofcom, 1/4 of UK employers etc) who are paying fees for all this training (and false information on the law and policy guidance that erases single sex spaces) are not getting a good deal. It is being sold as an initiative to reduce bullying but instead bullying is on the rise and I don't think it is because the kids are getting more unkind.

Wotapolava · 04/02/2021 19:50

Who knows what the fate of Stonewall and others will be.

With CTGN losing its licence via Ofcom.
I think it will send out a serious message.

JingsMahBucket · 04/02/2021 19:54

@Ijustreallywantacat

Why is there suddenly tonnes of these these threads on AIBU? Do I have to block AIBU too? Sad

YABVVVU.

@Ijustreallywantacat I know! These feel like a coordinated astroturfing campaign by the anti-trans and homophobic groups. I’d rather they keep all this fake “discussion” on the feminist boards and leave the rest of us alone.
Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/02/2021 19:56

Because the FWR posters have decided to colonise AIBU.

Most of FWR posters post on other threads. Sometimes with different names, sometimes not. We have every right to "post for traffic" our threads in AIBU/Chat as every other fucker does. Plus this is clearly an Am I Being Unreasonable" question.

JingsMahBucket · 04/02/2021 19:56

@JustAmotherOne
Because the FWR posters have decided to colonise AIBU.

Literally

There is a thread over in FWR with the regulars on that board deciding together what to post about next in their mission to bring the FWR topics of choice in to AIBU.

And threads discussing and picking apart the posts and posters who disagree with the FWR dogma.

I knew it was a coordinated campaign! It’s so freaking obvious.

BrumBoo · 04/02/2021 19:56

@JingsMahBucket what do you think is 'fake' about this discussion? Where do you see homophobia/transphobia here?

Whatwouldscullydo · 04/02/2021 19:57

Whod have thought recognising same sex attraction would be considered homophobic Hmm

LangClegsInSpace · 04/02/2021 19:58

@gardenbird48

I totally agree - Stonewall is currently launching a new campaign to target schools again and it is still full of issues that breach the government guidelines on these topics.

They deliberately encourage schools to make changes like mixed sex toilets or allowing a student to use the toilets of the opposite sex. Approximately 200 rapes take place in schools every year. Allowing female pupils to use the male toilets or vice versa is a massive safeguarding red flag that somehow schools have been convinced by Stonewall to ignore.

They have encouraged schools to allow pupils to socially transition without the knowledge or permission from their parents. This facilitates parental alienation and can set a child down a route that often seems to end with life changing hormone treatment and surgery.

One Stonewall Schools Ambassador is a rather high profile male-bodied 'lesbian' with a beard called Alex Drummond. Alex visits schools to talk to young female lesbians about being a lesbian. It is extremely concerning that schools have been persuaded that that is a good thing for our girls and haven't spotted the extremely large red flag that should be raising.

We, the taxpayers are financing Stonewall to campaign to remove single sex exemptions in the Equality Act 2010 and also to allow transgender people to participate in the opposite sex category in sports - particularly women's rugby.

We are also going to have to pay to get the influence and false information out of our schools before it is too late.

Excellent post.
Ijustreallywantacat · 04/02/2021 19:58

Had a look at the Transgender Trend material. Very confusing. It definitely seems to be promoting a 'Dont talk about it' attitude which is Section 28ish to me.
The attached paragraph I find very contradictory. It says that censorship and silencing is bad (true) while saying that teachers should have a scripted 'shut down' phrases ready to stop talk of transgender pupils...what?

I find the top paragraph about not 'fixing' children's emotions laughable. Teachers' work lives revolve around the wellbeing of students and asking them to not get involved is unrealistic.

As an educator I find the whole document totally out of touch with reality and how schools actually operate.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/02/2021 19:59

homophobic groups

There is no homophobia here. Apart from people who don't recognise people's rights to exclusive same sex attraction. So, TRAs and their allies.

Ijustreallywantacat · 04/02/2021 19:59

Forgot to attach image

..to think Stonewall should not be involved with schools?
Whatsnewpussyhat · 04/02/2021 20:00

Because the FWR posters have decided to colonise AIBU

Hahaha hahaha.

Like adult males colonising the female sex category, sports, safe spaces, prisons,

WOMEN WITH OPINIONS STAY IN YOUR BOX!

MadamBatty · 04/02/2021 20:04

Women discussing women’s issues on a women’s forum....shocker. Women know your place.

BrumBoo · 04/02/2021 20:06

It says that censorship and silencing is bad (true) while saying that teachers should have a scripted 'shut down' phrases ready to stop talk of transgender pupils...what?

The example given suggests that gender doesn't need to be the focus of any child's attention. It is not denying the trans child. What would you expect to be said if someone in class declared another pupil now identifies differently? Have you a 'gender is real because x person believes it' speech ready to go?

BrumBoo · 04/02/2021 20:10

@MadamBatty

Women discussing women’s issues on a women’s forum....shocker. Women know your place.
Don't be silly, AIBU is only for serious discussion. Like 'should I report my neighbours for being a bit forrin', or 'can I publicly flog my builder for shitting in my toilet'. Maybe a bit of 'my MiL dared to call at 6pm when I just put the baby down for nap, has she got dementia and can I put the evil witch in a home?'.

Never for serious issues that have long term consequences for women and children. That's just trolling.

pumpkinbump · 04/02/2021 20:14

@Ijustreallywantacat

Had a look at the Transgender Trend material. Very confusing. It definitely seems to be promoting a 'Dont talk about it' attitude which is Section 28ish to me. The attached paragraph I find very contradictory. It says that censorship and silencing is bad (true) while saying that teachers should have a scripted 'shut down' phrases ready to stop talk of transgender pupils...what?

I find the top paragraph about not 'fixing' children's emotions laughable. Teachers' work lives revolve around the wellbeing of students and asking them to not get involved is unrealistic.

As an educator I find the whole document totally out of touch with reality and how schools actually operate.

The message is not to affirm ridiculous notions in the minds of children that they can be whatever they want. That it's possible to change sex,than an effeminate not or tomboy girl must be born in the wrong body. This is the agenda of Stonewall, Proud Trust, GenderedIntel etc. Peopled with views like yours shouldn't be in the education system.
Whatwouldscullydo · 04/02/2021 20:14

Never for serious issues that have long term consequences for women and children. That's just trolling

One assumes that all these posters accusing us of spamming/trolling who are women , don't bother voting? Happy to not have their own bank accounts etc?

Or do you think they are happy to reap the benefits they have thanks to women who dared to not know their place amd keep quiet and fight for the rights to vote etc ?