Head teacher doing “shout outs”

[Atalune]

Head of large secondary is doing positive shout outs for children who are deserving.

And as bloody usual it is the majority of really bloody naughty kids who are doing sweet FA! Or those who are struggling with their mental health ( I do not grudge these)

As an ex teacher I KNOW it is important to motivate the ones who need it. The ones who are low. But I am so fed up.

Dd- she really thought he would get one this week- full marks in the work, work submitted is of a high quality, she’s joined all the lives. SHe’s keen she’s engaged. Did she get one? Nope. Her friend who is doing fuck all and crying all day long and doing no work is getting them all the time.

I DO understand that those who are struggling need more. I do I do. But I am so fed up of the kids who are working hard, doing well. What about them? Always overlooked! And so now she’s crying and saying what’s the point?! It is unfair. I can’t email the school we will look like total brats.

Grrrrr, life isn’t fair.

Just a vent. I’m on the edge today.

I hate this as well, I think those who tend to get the shout outs would be better off with the school putting the appropriate support in place to allow them to access learning, rather than a meaningless shout out that just demotivates others.

But the HT saying and well done again to for her hard work is a bit of a joke now. She knows it as much as we do! That's the thing isn't it, the kids aren't stupid, they all know how it works. I remember someone telling me about their little boy who was very disillusioned with stars and he suggested his mother go and buy a packet of them in Smiths.

I'm in my 30s and I still remember in primary school when we were told not to go on the climbing frame during some activity.

When we got back to the classroom, the teacher asked if anyone had been on it and when a couple of people said 'yes,' they got gold stars for their honesty while the kids who hadn't been on it got nothing! Livid then, livid now.

The problem is that once the kids cotton on to the system then the shout outs/praise loses its value because it’s seen as a mark of pity to be avoided at all costs.

Could you just email the HT and say your dd has been trying hard but is starting to flag and a shout out would really help. That way you’re not criticising per se, just playing the system

YANBU, I always try and downplay the school based rewards systems because they are inherently unfair. It’s only since the online learning that I’ve realised how much so. It’s awful. Totally cringe when you see the teachers scraping the barrel at trying to say x has done a good deed or tried really hard when you know it’s bullshit.

Sorry, but it’s true.

I agree with the posters saying get her a treat from you. I’ve explained to my child that there’s more at play here then a simple points system and that as long as she tries her best at home, she makes us proud.

I would consider sending in some feedback depending on what your relationship with the school is like.

hot choc I am so with you!

I feels good to hear that it’s just as transparent then as it is now.

@JustCallMeGriffin

Her friend who is doing fuck all and crying all day long and doing no work is getting them all the time.

I voted YABU just for this heartless comment. Your daughter has a friend who is so stressed by this that she's crying all the time and utterly disengaged from learning and you're pissed off that she's having positive "shout outs" for the little progress she is making with her work. FFS.

I don't think it's all that heartless in context. Lots (All) of children are struggling at this point. I don't think it is right to praise those who aren't doing anything praise worthy. It's pointless and isn't teaching those children resilience, which is definitely something they need at this point.

I totally agree op. I’m a teacher and it grinds my gears that if a poorly behaved student puts in the bare minimum they are rewarded with plaudits and fanfare, but when the consistently good learners continue to be good there’s nothing. I hate that we pander to the poorly behaved ones. It is one of the things that drove me from mainstream teaching.

Surely if your DD is not struggling, then she gets praise for good work, asking good questions, the satisfaction of getting everything right, all the time?
My DS has SEN and would never get any praise for anything like this, in the ordinary course of events. They only way he gets praise is for things that are good for him, not things that are objectively good compared to the rest of his peer group.

When he was at his first school he was really, really disappointed that he never got Star of the Week despite him having some weeks that were the absolute tops for him and his class teacher very unfeelingly I thought said "oh it has to be earned".

Can your DD not look back at all the other praise she's got and all the things she's got right, all the times she's done a good job and been told so?

In ours its the other way round. If kids do learning they get a certificate then when they get back they get a prize depending on the amount they have. DS has had one every week. But I do get it. I had this on Monday when they were late trough. I assumed DS hadn't got one as while I'm a supply teacher, and had our usual structured day with phonics, singing, activity, numbers, free play, outside then activity, we had done mainly what I had planned and not the remote learning (he's 3 nearly 4 so no structured formal education). The reason for this is because nearly all that weeks learning had been watching teachers online read story, watch teachers sing son. Watch teacher do yoga online and join in. He's 3 for god's sake. So we focused on phonics and numeracy with fun hands on, no screen time, jobs.

I was spitting when his didn't come through as yes we hadn't done these uninspiring jobs, but he had done other work that would hold him well when he starts reception. He had tried really hard as well, and given he has speech and language problems has really come on in the last month in what he knows. So the thought they'd given them to the kids who would be on screens all day, because the parents couldn't be bothered, and did the work by sitting there watching them, instead of learning he'd lost out.

Turns out they were just late in getting them out, but the fury was real. I had been prepared to draft an email to the school about it. Maybe this is something you can do just pointing out she's tried hard, surely that should get recognition? Hope you get it sorted

Surely if your DD is not struggling, then she gets praise for good work, asking good questions, the satisfaction of getting everything right, all the time?

what makes you think that?

That's the point, children who SEEM not to be struggling and/or are working twice as hard as others can be completely overlooked and forgotten.

it's not right at all. They are still children.

No adult would tolerate that someone else gets bonuses or rewards because they are complaining louder whilst they get on quietly with their own work...

One reason I paid school fees!

Totally agree with you and I’ve been a teacher of 20 years. There is a culture of pandering to the lazy and I do mean lazy, I’m not talking about the pupils who work hard but not high achieving, just the absolute ‘cba’ pupils and they do exist.

My own DS is bright but has ASD, I also recognise he can be lazy too. I’ve told his TA he only gets his awards for trying hard, I don’t want him growing up thinking just because he has we sort issues means it’s his ‘get out of work’ card.

My daughter is extremely bright and hard working. It’s recognised in her end of year reports but throughout the year she rarely receives a certificate. I’ve told her that the feeling of self accomplishment should be what drives her, she doesn’t need a piece of card to validate her accomplishments. Might seem blunt but it keeps her motivated.

Sorry but I think yabu. Your daughter's friend spends all day crying and you begrudge her a bit of encouragement. I think you are better off focusing your energy on encouraging your daughter to work hard for herself rather than to get praise from the head. Your daughter is already getting positive feedback in the form of good marks I assume, so her work is being recognised, albeit in a different way.

*sensory issues

It's weird, because even though I'm a fully grown adult, I still feel the sting of unfairness of this kind of thing from when I was at primary school.

I loved school and learning, and was very results/reward motivated (still am, which has served me very well in my career so far!) The weekly awards assembly was something everyone looked forward to, as each year group got three certificates (good behaviour, courtesy, good work) and vouchers to spend at the tuck shop.

I was bullied badly, and it was so tough to see the kids who bullied me and made me cry myself to sleep each night get the award for good behaviour because they offered to go to the office for the teacher once - and even that's so that they could get out of class. Whereas I was on my best behaviour all the time, despite everything that was going on with the bullies, and very rarely got rewarded for it.

It's just so unfair.

An email definitely needs to be sent. They need some kind of happy medium, and this idea that all kids should get a reward whether they earn it or not is just rubbish.

Your daughter's friend spends all day crying and you begrudge her a bit of encouragement

Nowhere does the OP say she begrudge this at all.

It's not one or the other - it is perfectly possible to praise those who are doing well too.

This has been very obvious in my son's primary the last few weeks as well. They give a 'shout-out' to all the kids who do all their home learning tasks of the week. My son is in early years, and has huge sensory issues, so whilst he will do absolutely all his English and Maths tasks quite happily (and then some) rubbing mud from the garden on to paper, sticking his hands in cold spaghetti, or making slime is just not something he can cope with. He does other tasks to make up for it, but there's no recognition, not even feedback.

One girl in his class gets plaudits every week for sending in pictures being covered in various foodstuff .

He does other tasks to make up for it, but there's no recognition, not even feedback.

One girl in his class gets plaudits every week for sending in pictures being covered in various foodstuff

tha'ts where it's wrong, they BOTH should get recognition.
Especially in reception!

I think it's horrible that behaviourism/a classroom management technique has been so ingrained in young children that they are now teenagers relying on external validation. They only do work to get praise and feel emotionally crushed when they don't get it, comparing themselves to others for their own self worth. It's not the kids fault at all, they've spent their whole lives with a carrot and stick being wielded at them to make them do anything, from chocolate bloody buttons for using a potty, to emotional withdrawal to make them 'do as they're told' and stifle their emotions, to star charts for being obedient and getting work done and making life easier for adults. Unfortunately it's the easiest system to implement to cover all children and get things done, but of course it isn't the healthiest for individuals. I feel for the kids on both sides, and I also agree that some of the ones receiving the praise for not really doing anything can see straight through it and couldn't care less if they didn't get any as grades or doing as adults want isn't really on their radar. You could email the school, and have a talk about self esteem and work on resilience stuff too. Maybe something like Big Life Journal for teens would help? I think being really open and honest about the praise being used as manipulation to try and get kids doing things is helpful, because you don't feel upset when you see it's a load of nonsense anyway. The reward will be her good grades, her happy home life, and being able to achieve what she wants to because she's worked for it. It's rotten that the system praises basic behaviour and makes those who do this anyway feel like they're missing out.

I agree with you, as both teacher and parent

I also agree with pp about external validation. It’s the ‘like’ social media culture. I think this is a misguided strategy by the head and one best avoided.

Of course some of the hardworking children should get a shout out.

But ... in a large secondary, the vast majority of children are not going to get mentioned at all! My DC's large secondary is quite good at posting plaudits for children who've done good work across a variety of subjects, but generally it's a handful from each year group, so so far this lockdown they've maybe covered at most 5% of the school population? So perhaps there is also an element of pointing out to your DC that not everyone can get recognised?

It's difficult.
#1 really hard worker, always put full effort in. Achieved well. Got loads of awards, and really appreciated them, but would have worked without them.
#2 not a worker, but did what she was supposed to and achieved well. Has a physical disability. Got only the awards all others got except one year where she did get quite a major external one nominated by her teacher (who had nominated her for an internal one and was clearly rather put out about the choice over her). Really would have been motivated by awards.
#3 not a worker, did only enough to keep out of trouble and not always that much. Doesn't care about awards generally, once commented that he wasn't naughty enough to get the "not been so naughty today" awards, nor good enough to get the "always good" awards. Got a reasonable amount.

So actually my #2 who would have been most motivated by them, was the one who didn't get them. Other than the one I mentioned, she was the one I was dropping a note to the teacher in the last week of term saying "she hasn't had any X award this year yet" on the ones where everyone got it at least once over the year.
But #1 who would have worked hard without them, would it have been fair to say that she shouldn't have them because she would work without them?

I think in some ways it's got out of hand. The prizes the children see as "big" like star of the week, and we all know each child should win once, have taken on too much significance.

When I was at school we got team points. You had a notebook you wrote in when you got one, and at the end of the week you showed the teacher, who noted it down. You could get team points for anything from holding a door open, good work, making a good comment in class. Everyone would have had some to hand in at the end of the week. It went into the teams and each Friday assembly you'd be told which team had won it that week.
I don't remember number of team points being discussed between us at any point, so it was entirely private.

The dc's secondary does similar, but it's entirely personal, and the number of points they can use to trade in for things (like a day's pass to the front of lunch or Amazon vouchers). The teachers are told to give at least 5 a lesson, 3 of which should be going to the "quietly getting on" children.
It seems to work. Yes, there are some teachers who give them out like smarties, some who only give out the 5, and most that are between the two. No one except the child involved knows how many they have.

I worked at a large, high achieving school who had a lunchtime club specifically for disruptive children, the naive aim being to keep them focused and out of trouble (obviously it wasn’t marketed as such but kids aren’t stupid 🙄). This club had limited numbers and was invite only but wasn’t compulsory. The idea was to get the kids actually wanting to go there rather than being forced to, so to achieve this they’d have all sorts of (non educational) cool and fun activities and even arrange completely funded trips outside of lunch hours. The club was always full and the senior staff were super proud of ‘their boys’ as they always behaved so well there.
Completely unfair and caused much resentment throughout the school.
Bonkers!