AIBU to think that women should be able to request same-sex provision?

[Glinner]

The tweet below is astonishing for two reasons. First of all, as the poster points out, this is the NURSING AND MIDWIFERY COUNCIL saying that one's sex is 'assigned' at birth. They said this out loud! As part of their evidence to the GRA enquiry!

But aside from that nonsense, what stood out for me was the number of nurses, midwives and nursing associates whose 'gender identity' does not match their sex. 4,484! That seems like a high number, does it not? I wonder how many of that number are fully intact males?

You might remember when Clare Dimyon requested a same-sex nurse to attend her during her mammogram, the NHS responded in the most extraordinary way--they took her name off the letter and published it in official literature as an example of a 'bigoted' request.

One thing for which we should be grateful to Eddie Izzard: Now we are under no doubt that in many cases 'trans' means, simply, 'crossdresser'. Are these 'trans' nurses, midwives and nursing assistants crossdressers? Are women within their rights to request that crossdressing men not be present during intimate exams and so on? If a woman makes this request, will she be committing a hate crime?

Here's the Clare Dimyon story

glinner.co.uk/interview-with-clare-dimyon-mbe/

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/patient-branded-transphobic-after-asking-for-female-medic-3jh3snddt

twitter.com/Sexnotgender_/status/1357034763039686662

I asked my DH and DS, and after a lot of squirming, they decided it should be a matter of choice. Though both preferred to die young than actually need intimate care 🙄. Thank goodness the survival of the species doesn't depend on them eh?!

Warning could be triggering

metro.co.uk/2019/05/23/comatose-woman-who-gave-birth-was-raped-and-impregnated-by-care-worker-multiple-times-9667582/

www.insider.com/woman-in-vegetative-state-disabled-raped-with-shocking-frequency-2019-1

I usually do not care about the sex or gender of HCPs, more whether they are competent. However, if I was raped and wanted to see a female GP for that reason, I should be able to. Do I need to specify "I would like to see a medic who does not have a penis."?
By not addressing these issues, the NHS is making this a much bigger deal than it actually is.
No group should have more rights than another, but some people seem to think that the only way to produce equality is to reduce the rights of another group.

The needs of the patient must come first. If the HCPs do not understand that , one wonders how they have been trained. Most of us grit our teeth at times, but some just can’t.

Unfortunately though, if you can't, you shouldn't be doing the job.

it just strikes me that this is all going in the wrong direction.

Why are the powers that be deliberately making things worse for women? Reducing choice for women, reducing safeguarding, reducing the clarity of information around women's health issues specifically (not men's), reducing legal protections and reducing the freedom to speak out and question these problems.

The ideological capture in the NHS that has caused the topic of this thread must be reversed.

At the moment my daughters effectively have fewer rights than I did growing up. That is not ok. We can't allow this effective removal of rights to be converted into law. In some cases (Scotland, ROI) it is already too late but we have time to prevent any further progress and help the Scottish and Irish women reverse things.

Michelle I was talking about us women....who often put up with what we are given without complaint.

@gardenbird48 I agree. It is not ok.

@gardenbird48

it just strikes me that this is all going in the wrong direction.

Why are the powers that be deliberately making things worse for women? Reducing choice for women, reducing safeguarding, reducing the clarity of information around women's health issues specifically (not men's), reducing legal protections and reducing the freedom to speak out and question these problems.

The ideological capture in the NHS that has caused the topic of this thread must be reversed.

At the moment my daughters effectively have fewer rights than I did growing up. That is not ok. We can't allow this effective removal of rights to be converted into law. In some cases (Scotland, ROI) it is already too late but we have time to prevent any further progress and help the Scottish and Irish women reverse things.

I was just thinking this the other day how xx-chromosomed females under the age of 18 compared to mine at the same age have been eroded wafer-thin

Oh I see Sulky sorry, misread.

I had a male midwife. He was famous for being the first African and male midwife in my city. (Geneva Switzerland).
He was great but I still wish I had been asked about which sex I preferred for intimate care as I was quite taken aback when he lifted the cover and started examining what needed examining.
I also understand that for some women it would have been an unpleasant situation, for privacy and modesty reasons.

@gardenbird48

it just strikes me that this is all going in the wrong direction.

Why are the powers that be deliberately making things worse for women? Reducing choice for women, reducing safeguarding, reducing the clarity of information around women's health issues specifically (not men's), reducing legal protections and reducing the freedom to speak out and question these problems.

The ideological capture in the NHS that has caused the topic of this thread must be reversed.

At the moment my daughters effectively have fewer rights than I did growing up. That is not ok. We can't allow this effective removal of rights to be converted into law. In some cases (Scotland, ROI) it is already too late but we have time to prevent any further progress and help the Scottish and Irish women reverse things.

So true. This is really depressing

If overnight all the male obgyns and midwives disappeared and were replaced by women with exactly the same level of training and experience and bedside manner - because I'm assuming here women are equally as competent as men and vice versa - who would be negatively impacted?

I'd suggest that all the women who had a great experience with their male obgyns and midwives would still have great experiences.

BUT all the women who have difficulties with intimate procedures done by men would have a better experience.

So the answer to who would be negatively impacted, is the men who are doctors and midwives. I'm not sure why we need to focus on their professional goals over women's lived experiences?

I can see posters saying "women abuse too" and "I was sexually abused by a woman and I don't want a woman treating me".

To that I'd say I was also abused by a woman, although not sexually, and I do understand these women exist. However, we can't deny that the figures are extremely low. So low as to not really require that the entire women's health system is set up to accommodate this group. The NHS does have specialist centres for certain conditions though and I'd suggest a specialist centre could be set up for women who really can't deal with maternity care by women.

I think it’s a retrograde step. Choice goes both ways. Give women choice but allow everyone a profession if they’re qualified for it. Most people are decent in life and at work.

Does this mean men can refuse a female gp for sensitive consultations?

As a female GP, I always offer men the option of a male colleague for rectal or genital examinations.

The problem with trans HCPs of either birth sex is that the patient risks being called transphobic or gas-lit if they ask for an HCP of the other birth sex.

Miss Lucy, how many men take you up on that out of interest? Men have a harder choice there, I think.

@picklemewalnuts

Miss Lucy, how many men take you up on that out of interest? Men have a harder choice there, I think.

Very few, but it's probably partly because most men who do want a male GP will have booked with one in the first place. The other big factor is that men do not feel sexually threatened by women, and are comparatively unlikely to have been abused or assaulted by a woman. Quite a few men specifically say they prefer to have a female GP for intimate examinations.

I have had 4 children, and my experiences have, in large, been positive. I was asked if it was ok to be examined by a male doctor, or if it was ok if a student was there, asked for consent before anything was done.

I was treated with respect, as the patient, as I should have been, given choices and my decision, at times in my life I was most vulnerable, were respected.

Had I been asked if it was ok for a trans women HCP to be involved, I probably would have said yes.
However, I would not have been ok with having to pretend that a TW was female. The obvious lie and deception would have put me on high alert and made me uncomfortable.

It's a tiny number when you look at the number of the register 0.6%. On the whole there is a policy across the NHS that individuals can request sam see staff for intimate procedures and efforts are made to facilitate this. However it isn't always possible and where it isn't the option of a chaperone is usually offered. Often an unqualified individual that wouldn't be qualified to provide the procedure needed. When looking at childbirth it has been the case for most of history the midwives are female and doctors are male so both have are are involved in intimate procedures.

sparklyshoesandtutus ok, so there's no female doctor available - fair enough, let's assume it's an urgent procedure that can't be rescheduled. The chaperone offered is a Transwomen, as according to the guidelines they are female. Which leaves the patient with a make doctor and a pretend female chaperone.

You're ok with this?

Centuries of history of medicine when women were excluded entirely from the profession.

For how long have women had the opportunity to enter the medical profession?

The history of male led obstetrics and gynaecology is pretty horrific. Not a great deal of empathy or seeing women as actual human beings, nor even babies who were not thought to need any pain relief for painful procedures.

Men in midwifery was less of a thing when there was a greater risk of being burnt at the stake I imagine.

male not make!

When looking at childbirth it has been the case for most of history the midwives are female and doctors are male so both have are are involved in intimate procedures.

Well across which period of history? Across human history as a whole and generally across cultures men haven't been involved in delivering babies. Men became involved when surgery started and midwives, together with their knowledge and expertise, were relegated under men's superior technical knowledge.

The idea that midwives can’t talk about biological reality because of trendy concerns irrelevant to pregnant women is terrifying.