AIBU to think that women should be able to request same-sex provision?

[Glinner]

The tweet below is astonishing for two reasons. First of all, as the poster points out, this is the NURSING AND MIDWIFERY COUNCIL saying that one's sex is 'assigned' at birth. They said this out loud! As part of their evidence to the GRA enquiry!

But aside from that nonsense, what stood out for me was the number of nurses, midwives and nursing associates whose 'gender identity' does not match their sex. 4,484! That seems like a high number, does it not? I wonder how many of that number are fully intact males?

You might remember when Clare Dimyon requested a same-sex nurse to attend her during her mammogram, the NHS responded in the most extraordinary way--they took her name off the letter and published it in official literature as an example of a 'bigoted' request.

One thing for which we should be grateful to Eddie Izzard: Now we are under no doubt that in many cases 'trans' means, simply, 'crossdresser'. Are these 'trans' nurses, midwives and nursing assistants crossdressers? Are women within their rights to request that crossdressing men not be present during intimate exams and so on? If a woman makes this request, will she be committing a hate crime?

Here's the Clare Dimyon story

glinner.co.uk/interview-with-clare-dimyon-mbe/

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/patient-branded-transphobic-after-asking-for-female-medic-3jh3snddt

twitter.com/Sexnotgender_/status/1357034763039686662

@katnyps I am also offended by the fact that men are statistically dangerous to women.

Thank you terriblewithmoney. I felt like I was going mad. He was lovely, very good with my baby and seemed to know his profession, but he was the one doing home visits to all women who just had a baby in my area.

Post natal care is so much about pelvic floor, stitches, bleeding and it is so hard to discuss with a strange man in your home. If just felt weird and way too intimate. With my second child he was apparently on holiday and I had a female midwife. I cannot explain how much better I felt with that.

There should be a choice. And there should be a debate on this. And however lovely this man is, he should only do home visits to women who consent.

CoffeeTeaChocolate
I don’t think it necessarily is about trans people and I am actually quite offended if we cannot discuss this.

It's not. I agree.

But it's the expectation that certain men are beyond question.

But, of course, it's any man. And I too, would feel horribly uncomfortable having a man in my home wanting to intimately examine me when I was expecting a woman.

I mean, it's completely normal, ffs!!!

None of this should even be up for question. And no cohort within the male sex, gets a pass based on something they say.

Women are biologically hardwired to feel uncomfortable in the situation described by @CoffeeTeaChocolate. Our instincts are primed to alert us to possible danger when in the presence of strange male. Not because we’re irrational rude people. Not because we’re being ‘unkind’. But because men are physically superior and until we can do a risk assessment we’re meant to be alert to that.
I think that being forced to constantly override this in order to be polite or inclusive is unfair and as usual puts men in an even stronger position in society.

This is extraordinary grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/just-a-flat-no

[quote Glinner]This is extraordinary grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/just-a-flat-no[/quote]
Yeah the sheer level of stupidity is astounding.

Thanks for pointing me in the direction of Alex's twitter feed Glinner. Alex is a monumental arsehole isn't he? And one who clearly doesn't understand his own manifesto, bless him.

Nice ratios there though

That person is an MP??

@IWillSqueakAgain

Please stop using the term trans issue.

This isn’t a trans issue it’s a women’s rights one. It always has been always will be. Even if they make self id law it will still be an issue relating to those of us who were born female exclusively (we just won’t be free to say that...)

Yes you are right.

It is certainly not women who wanted trans people to be anything to do with this issue. The fact that they are is solely due to the successful lobbying by people (not necessarily trans people) who push a very specific form of trans activism that demands that we believe that people can change sex because they say so.

So first women are screwed by our misogynist society where rape is practically legal.

Secondly screwed by our patriarchal healthcare systems, which ignore our symptoms and use the male body as default.

Thirdly screwed by the aforementioned lobby groups insisting organisations such as NHS behave as if TWAW, thus over riding our rights to single sex care.

Fourthly (is that a word?) screwed all over again when we object by being branded "transphobic".

And we've no one to vote for who gives a shit.

THANKS GUYS

Omg. Alex Sobel is my Mp. I have been writing to him for years and I even voted for him in the wrong belief he was listening . I am not surprised that he has not written back to me for ages. Of course it is Leeds which is where the wonderful Managed area of prostitution in Holbeck is unquestioned by the Labour Party. Shit shit shit.

I would like to know how many women here who would have let a strange male midwife check their stitches when they were completely alone with him in their homes.

I was offered a male midwife and ended up enrolling with a different midwifery service because I felt uncomfortable with the idea. (Didn't know if it might be frowned upon to request a woman midwife!) It's not that I mind male doctors or feel uneasy , it's more that being pregnant, giving birth and the recovery might require a lot of possibly trivial but intimate issues and I would be uncomfortable discussing with a man (especially as men can't possibly understand about what it's like - even a woman who hasn't had children can still relate to what a lot of the issues are). So whilst I wouldn't mind a man being at the birth or suturing my nether regions, I would not want them trying to give breastfeeding advice or discussing the after effects of a bad tear. As to the idea of a man making home visits after the birth... well that just seems like it will upset a lot of vulnerable women who probably won't dare to say anything. I wonder about the motives of a man who becomes a midwife. Surely they can't do a very good job because most women will feel too awkward.
This seems one area where women need care from other women. The rights of transwomen should be secondary. What genuine transwoman would want to be a midwife, knowing that it will upset women?

SnackSizeRaisin
What genuine transwoman would want to be a midwife, knowing that it will upset women?

I'd rephrase that: "What woman would want to be a midwife if she knew that her being one would upset women?"

I had really really horrible female midwives when I had DS, and when i had to be taken back in for a transfusion.

I had a really nice male health visitor.

Personally, I’d take kind over female, though both would be nice.

So I don’t think men shouldn’t be midwives, or gynaecologists. But it seems right that women can choose if they wish a female.

Screenshot of this appalling misogyny

And I'm sorry but I do question the motives - or at the very least the judgement - of a man choosing to work in this tole

Why are you trying to insinuate that male health care providers must be doing it for perv reasons?

One reason why Leeds is such a shitshow then.

Male MP doesn't want women's votes.

My jaw is still on the floor about Alex Sobel

Who on earth does he think he's representing, talking like that?

Could it be where 4,484 nurses have said their gender does not match their sex is because they are not prepared to tick a ridiculous box

Yes I agree - the high numbers would be due to not filling out the forms which asks your sex, age, ethnicity etc - many that I’ve seen do ask what is your sex at birth.

I think this does highlight a potential issue though - should these forms be mandatory?

Do we shower in toilets then now? He sounds like a teenage Momentum supporter rather than a serious politician.

I would not necessarily mind a make midwife as long as I had a choice.
What I would mind would be a man pretending to be a woman. It is not honest or authentic.

So I don’t think men shouldn’t be midwives, or gynaecologists. But it seems right that women can choose if they wish a female.

I agree. I would have no issues personally if I have a male or female doctor/midwife etc but I would like myself and others the option to choose if they/I wish to.

AIBU thread on Sobel here:

To think a sitting Labour MP should operate in line with their manifesto http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/amiibeingunreasonable/4156519-To-think-a-sitting-Labour-MP-should-operate-in-line-with-their-manifesto

I was in a situation where a male who identified as a woman came into the psychiatric ward where I was a patient. The main facilities were shared between both sexes - dining room/living room/OT room etc but the bedrooms were in 2 separate wings - one for women and one for men. She was placed on the woman's wing but with a support worker permanently sat outside her door. It did make many of us feel a bit uncomfortable. The worst thing was after being on leave 'she' came back for a discharge meeting and was now identifying as a man. This is something that needs to be urgently addressed.

I have no problem with male medical staff

I have no problem with trans people (either way)

I have a MASSIVE, HUMUNGOUS problem with
I would rather that this piece of healthcare was done by somebody the same SEX as me
and that being ignored

and EVERY person should
as it demeans the rights of the patients
of any sex or background