AIBU to think that women should be able to request same-sex provision?

[Glinner]

The tweet below is astonishing for two reasons. First of all, as the poster points out, this is the NURSING AND MIDWIFERY COUNCIL saying that one's sex is 'assigned' at birth. They said this out loud! As part of their evidence to the GRA enquiry!

But aside from that nonsense, what stood out for me was the number of nurses, midwives and nursing associates whose 'gender identity' does not match their sex. 4,484! That seems like a high number, does it not? I wonder how many of that number are fully intact males?

You might remember when Clare Dimyon requested a same-sex nurse to attend her during her mammogram, the NHS responded in the most extraordinary way--they took her name off the letter and published it in official literature as an example of a 'bigoted' request.

One thing for which we should be grateful to Eddie Izzard: Now we are under no doubt that in many cases 'trans' means, simply, 'crossdresser'. Are these 'trans' nurses, midwives and nursing assistants crossdressers? Are women within their rights to request that crossdressing men not be present during intimate exams and so on? If a woman makes this request, will she be committing a hate crime?

Here's the Clare Dimyon story

glinner.co.uk/interview-with-clare-dimyon-mbe/

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/patient-branded-transphobic-after-asking-for-female-medic-3jh3snddt

twitter.com/Sexnotgender_/status/1357034763039686662

Questioning a males motive for becoming a midwife is appalling. Do you do the same for males who are gynaecologists or breast surgeons? Or women Urologists? Bloody hell.

Questioning a males motive for becoming a midwife is appalling

Exactly.
But there's apparently no bigotry here and on these threads..

All about reasonable concerns.
Aye.
OK

@Quaagars I’ve only skim-read the thread but I’m appalled that in this day and age people still think in these terms. I’m sure someone will pile on and call me woke and insult me in some way but what can I say. Bloody hell.

Agree. Worse still, Labour MP Alex Sobel was asked this question on Twitter tonight - his answer? “No”.

listeningquietly
That may be true for you.
It's clearly on a whole different level of discussion for others.
When someone has flat out said that they question the motives of men in midwifery type roles.
This type of stuff is usually simmering under the surface and not articulated so bluntly, but it just shows it is there.

Oh I do so love the posters who state that "..by that time I couldn't have cared less who saw me". They are always here, ready to tell us that they had their bits out and so many people saw and they didn't care.

To be honest, I probably could go through a vaginal exam with a man..the stress/fear would make me dissociate and I'd be a shell of a body. I coukd never do a mammogram with a man though. I've had radiographers with their arm around me, squeezing my breast hard onto the plate. If I dissociated from fear there I'd be left hanging from the machine by my squeezed breast.

Because if you can come on and glibly mention everybody saw your bits and you didn't care, then you quite literally have no idea how lucky you are. Not one tiny little sliver of an idea. Which is great for you, because I'm guessing it means you've not been sexually assaulted by an HCP. In hospital. When you were sick. Or raped by one who knew exactly what pain he was causing. You don't put off getting care when you're in severe pain because you've got to weigh the panic attack being in an ambulance (you get strapped down and the doors are closed) up against getting treated.

Good for you if you don't know this. But you know what? Nobody should need to know what that's like.

I've had some shitty female medics. Utter cows some of them (some utter angels too). But dealing with a rough or horrible woman is in no way comparable to being sexually assaulted when you're in hospital. Women should never be put in a position where it's even possible. And a chaperone is not the answer, not because she could be a deluded male, but because the person touching you is still male.

Safeguarding is about making sure nobody vulnerable slips through the net. It's not about validating anybody out of an identity crisis.

@Quaagars

listeningquietly That may be true for you. It's clearly on a whole different level of discussion for others. When someone has flat out said that they question the motives of men in midwifery type roles. This type of stuff is usually simmering under the surface and not articulated so bluntly, but it just shows it is there.

Because there are women all over this thread saying they could not speak freely with the male midwife who visited them in their home and didn't feel they could ask about their stitches. And so they did not receive adequate care. Why aren't these men taking these (very common) views into account in their career choice? It's either ignorance or something worse.

And make your mind up Quagaars. Is it transphobia you're uncovering here or misandry? Or is it just that whenever women say anything about womens rights on AIBU or FWR you need to pop up with righteous ire arguing that you're really terribly reasonable but actually the horrible prejudice must be exposed?

Is it transphobia you're uncovering here or misandry?

Well, that's just it, isn't it - it's kind of both because you get those insinuating that males must be doing midwifery type roles because of some perv reason, and also people don't want trans women around them because "they're male."
It's all intertwined.
Just for the record I think that's a really good post by anotherhumanfemale and why I think we should always be able to choose who we have look after us.

People don't want transwomen as HCPs them when they have requested a female HCP because trans women are not female you mean?

Worse still, Labour MP Alex Sobel was asked this question on Twitter tonight - his answer? “No”.

He is shameful and Starmer should step in now. But he won't.

it's kind of both because you get those insinuating that males must be doing midwifery type roles because of some perv reason, and also people don't want trans women around them because "they're male."

And are you asking why?

I personally don't want Adam's apples and their owners anywhere near me when I'm vulnerable. That's not because I think they are all sick perverts but because they trigger my ptsd (to the point of psychosis when a man delivered dc1).

I question men in midwifery/rape counselling centres not because I think they're perverts but because I don't understand choosing a caring profession knowing that potentially a large percentage of your patients might be uncomfortable and/or traumatised by you. I've worked with vulnerable people and their needs came first. I understood why the woman who had her 4th child taken off her didn't want pregnant me anywhere near her...People with Adam's apples should understand why I don't want them near me. If they lack that empathy then they are in the wrong job.

also people don't want trans women around them because "they're male."

Well, yes they are. Not sure why you put it in quotes as if it's disputed?

And make your mind up Quagaars. Is it transphobia you're uncovering here or misandry? Or is it just that whenever women say anything about womens rights on AIBU or FWR you need to pop up with righteous ire arguing that you're really terribly reasonable but actually the horrible prejudice must be exposed?

Regular as clockwork and just as predictable.

Regular as clockwork and just as predictable

If you scroll up a little bit you'll see I already addressed that.

Actually Quaagars, despite only a brief acquaintance I've already got into the habit of mostly scrolling past your posts in the certain knowledge there'll be nothing useful or new there.

I was seriously sexually assaulted by male medics on two different occasions. I don't go for smear tests or mammograms because I can't face being undressed and things done to me. If I did turn up and a man was doing those tests I wouldn't be able to cope, so I don't bother with either.

Actually Quaagars, despite only a brief acquaintance I've already got into the habit of mostly scrolling past your posts in the certain knowledge there'll be nothing useful or new there.

Fair enough, but commenting on something you clearly haven't read (like you've just admitted) just for a dig smacks a bit echo chamber like.

As one of my children was delivered by a male It's really not something I can get worked up about. The person delivering would be a medical professional would they not?

Is that all anyone requires from a doctor/nurse/midwife etc, that they be a professional? Surely that's the bare minimum? We need skill, empathy, trustworthiness.

As one of my children was delivered by a male It's really not something I can get worked up about. The person delivering would be a medical professional would they not?

Lucky you. A male delivered dc1. He was professional, kind and gentle. He also triggered my pre existing ptsd. Dc1 went to nicu and I had a psychotic break. I don't remember the first six months of my son's life. I tried to kill myself when he was 36 hours old.

Dc2 (after 2 years of intensive therapy on the NHS) was delivered by an amazing team of women.

Both Doctors were professional and kind but their sex made a huge difference to me and my family.

All those saying that they have male nurses etc it's not the point. The right to choose is the cornerstone of the feminist movement. Our choice is being taken away...therefore I see this as a step backwards and that should worry ALL women.

@Kettledodger I think I just wanted to make the point that I don’t think men should be prevented from doing these jobs. I did say there should be a choice.

"All those saying that they have male nurses etc it's not the point. The right to choose is the cornerstone of the feminist movement. Our choice is being taken away...therefore I see this as a step backwards and that should worry ALL women."

The people who pretend not to understand this point, you have to wonder about their motives.