That women should not be banned from Social Media for asking the question ( Thread 4)

[Langrycleg]

Many women have been suspended from sm for asking the question:

“Do you believe that male sexed people should be allowed access to changing rooms and showers for female sexed people and teenagers?”
Seems like a perfectly reasonable question which we should be allowed to ask.

Let’s vote with our AIBU.

twitter.com/HJoyceGender/status/1356216226054344707

This has been shared to another thread. It's made to address the problems in the SNP but please watch it, it applies to the whole of the UK and addresses this issue.

@334bu

*So now will you answer mine. Do you have any examples of a teenage girl reporting being forced to share a space with someone with an exposed penis?*

Read upthread of US school where swim team forced to change in cupboard because transwomen was using the female changing room.

A whole swim team? In a cupboard? I think I'd like to see more details.

Do you have any examples of a teenage girl reporting being forced to share a space with someone with an exposed penis?

Not yet. But we are fighting potential safeguarding issues jj. Why would any person who cared for the safeguarding of women and girls of any age want to lower their boundaries, or want to put them into a situation where they could be harmed so that they could only then make the provision to not let it happen again. This results in the answer for how many women and children being harmed is 'enough' in your eyes being answered by n+1.

Anyone reading your posts over a multitude of threads will have already picked this up.

You keep asking for data on how often this has happened. Yet, you also never seem to acknowledge the number of male sex offenders over the past 18 months who have been charged with child sex abuse offences that identify as women.

We are not saying by any means that ALL transwomen are predators but we do keep pointing out the prison statistics. And remind you of the number of sex offenders who when they come out of prison will have access to these facilities.

@334bu

Again with the case by case !!!! Case by case does not mean individual by individual. ! Communal showers for females are not open to males because that would put women in danger. Transwomen are male therefore not allowed. Doesn't matter that Jane is really nice and wouldn't hurt a fly , the mere fact of their male sex excludes them.

There is ample case law on what proportionate and legitimate means in the context of the Equalities Act. All of the protected characteristics contain permittable discrimination based on that clause and there have been lots of court cases. The courts have set quite a high bar, understandably because otherwise it would undermine the entire purpose of the act.

Not yet. But we are fighting potential safeguarding issues jj.

So it's a question based on something that appears to have never happened. Got you. Trans kids deserve safeguarding too you know, you don't seem to give a shit about them. Not women's problem if trans people get raped or attacked using men's spaces I believe is the usual line.

Well keeping single sex spaces to ensure the safeguarding and women and girls is a proportionate means to achieve a legitimate aim.

I do not believe a case on this specific point has been brought before the courts yet.

The waters are muddied by the fact that lobby groups such has stonewall has attempted to change the meaning of the word sex to gender.

it's unsuprising that some people took the piss out of her for it.

Yeah ffs ladies, it was just a joke don't women have a sense of humour. Just kidding. It's only banter.

I reckon those charming folks who sent dick pics onto JK Rowlings tweets about her childrens book were taking the piss as well.

Even my kids know that "I was just joking" generally isn't a good excuse.

Trans kids deserve safeguarding too you know

Yes we do, how does allowing transwomen of the cross dressing or no change to the outward appearance variety safeguard trans kids?

Why can't trans kids be safeguarded by third spaces?

Why given that they could be safeguarded by third spaces is this not enough for you? Because once you get beyond this point it's not about safeguarding it's about feelings. When it comes to feelings why do trans kids feelings matter more than muslim girls feelings?

@lifeturnsonadime

Trans kids deserve safeguarding too you know

Yes we do, how does allowing transwomen of the cross dressing or no change to the outward appearance variety safeguard trans kids?

Why can't trans kids be safeguarded by third spaces?

Why given that they could be safeguarded by third spaces is this not enough for you? Because once you get beyond this point it's not about safeguarding it's about feelings. When it comes to feelings why do trans kids feelings matter more than muslim girls feelings?

Third spaces don't exist.

whole swim team? In a cupboard? I think I'd like to see more details

Maybe not quite a cupboard but forced out of their assigned changing room by a male
time.com/4324687/even-in-liberal-communities-transgender-bathroom-laws-worry-parents/

Third spaces don't exist.

No not yet, so will you fight for them with us?

So it's a question based on something that appears to have never happened. Got you. Trans kids deserve safeguarding too you know, you don't seem to give a shit about them. Not women's problem if trans people get raped or attacked using men's spaces I believe is the usual line

You can't use women as human shields amd rely on their single sex spaces for safety then fight for "rights" that allow the predatory males you say you are escaping to follow you straight in. Doesn't exactly back up your case of being unsafe

Jj, why do you have so much trouble with the women on here saying no? The answer is no.

@jj1968

Not yet. But we are fighting potential safeguarding issues jj.

So it's a question based on something that appears to have never happened. Got you. Trans kids deserve safeguarding too you know, you don't seem to give a shit about them. Not women's problem if trans people get raped or attacked using men's spaces I believe is the usual line.

I don't think you have 'Got' me at all. We have had this conversation before I feel.

Trans kids deserve safeguarding too you know,

There is absolutely no disagreement from me here about that. (Is that really how you thought you 'got me'?)

you don't seem to give a shit about them

On the contrary, I do 'give a shit about them'. If you 'gave a shit' about them jj why are you on a forum constantly trying to shame women for fighting against the conflicts in rights for women and girls. What are you actively doing to secure their safeguarding so that it DOES NOT impact on the established safeguarding for women and girls?

Not women's problem if trans people get raped or attacked using men's spaces I believe is the usual line.

Isn't this usually when you start bringing up that women can be sex offenders too? But yes, why is it that you feel women should be human shields for males who identify as women?

Your glee that you 'got me' seems rather ludicrous but it again shows what you think of the needs of women and girls and shows just what you think of women. It is a common theme across your posts on many threads.

@jj1968

Not yet. But we are fighting potential safeguarding issues jj.

So it's a question based on something that appears to have never happened. Got you. Trans kids deserve safeguarding too you know, you don't seem to give a shit about them. Not women's problem if trans people get raped or attacked using men's spaces I believe is the usual line.

Your obviously not aware jj that one of the principles of safeguarding is prevention. So allowing young males to access female changing rooms goes completely against safeguarding, for reasons that everybody knows, even when they pretend not too.

Oh, and again, have you acknowledged what potentially will happen as those sex offenders get released? It is a safeguarding issue for anybody really. Or are you just continuing to ignore them?

[quote 334bu]whole swim team? In a cupboard? I think I'd like to see more details

Maybe not quite a cupboard but forced out of their assigned changing room by a male
time.com/4324687/even-in-liberal-communities-transgender-bathroom-laws-worry-parents/[/quote]
So some girls from the team are using a family changing room. Bit different wouldn't you say from a whole swim team forced to use a cupboard. This is a classic example of how GC activists lie and exaggerate knowing that most people won't bother to seek out the truth.

I wonder how those girls would feel if someone who looked like Buck Angel had walked into the changing room? It's possible the person they saw with a towel wrapped round their waist was a trans man or intersex. You'd support that wouldn't you?

Third spaces don't exist because while there is a campaign for them, its not yet being backed by the big money and those who have a very big slice of government and press support. This could be produced very fast. I hope it will be one of the outcomes of the consultation that has just finished.

But the main reason third spaces haven't yet seriously been campaigned for, lets be honest, is because people born male who do not want to use male toilets and facilities do not want third spaces. They want to use female people's spaces, with females.

So all of this is about trying to overwhelm female people's consent, or belief that they have the right to say no, and disguise or avoid letting get talked about that male people using female spaces makes those spaces:

• mixed sex, removing the right of female people to be with only people of the female sex
• removes the right of females to privacy, dignity and safety granted by female only spaces because male people's needs to be with them when undressed and vulnerable are seen as more important
• excludes those female people who cannot use mixed sex spaces from any facilities without consideration or alternatives
• regards female consent, consultation, choice or even being a voice in the debate as irrelevant in meeting the needs of males. It in fact regards females as merely props to the needs of males.

It's all a bit grim really.

Your obviously not aware jj that one of the principles of safeguarding is prevention. So allowing young males to access female changing rooms goes completely against safeguarding, for reasons that everybody knows, even when they pretend not too.

Sending a teenage trans girl who is visibly indistinguishable from any other girl to use the men's toilets and changing rooms is a significant safeguarding risk.

Show me proof

Proof shown

Aaah but it didn't happen on a midnight on Friday the 13th on a full moon amd reported on page 16 of the new York Times in purple ink so it doesn't count

You never acknowledge a single thing that happens

Note all the many, many arguments based on arguing and reasoning female people out of believing they justifiably need, can realistically have or should morally have any of the above. Often matched by pointing out that male born people will just take those spaces etc anyway and females might as well give up. Never any interest in hearing women and thinking about other approaches because the aim isn't that male people aren't safe, the aim is to use female spaces with females in them and no way for females to say no.

It's gynephobia and sexism on crack.

JJ you haven't answered my question.

If safeguarding is your concern will you campaign for third spaces so that everyone's safeguarding needs can be met?

jj1968

334bu
whole swim team? In a cupboard? I think I'd like to see more details

Maybe not quite a cupboard but forced out of their assigned changing room by a male
time.com/4324687/even-in-liberal-communities-transgender-bathroom-laws-worry-parents/
So some girls from the team are using a family changing room. Bit different wouldn't you say from a whole swim team forced to use a cupboard. This is a classic example of how GC activists lie and exaggerate knowing that most people won't bother to seek out the truth.

I wonder how those girls would feel if someone who looked like Buck Angel had walked into the changing room? It's possible the person they saw with a towel wrapped round their waist was a trans man or intersex. You'd support that wouldn't you?

Still no, JJ.

You don't get to dismantle the scant protection women have, because of Buck Angel 🙄