That women should not be banned from Social Media for asking the question ( Thread 4)

[Langrycleg]

Many women have been suspended from sm for asking the question:

“Do you believe that male sexed people should be allowed access to changing rooms and showers for female sexed people and teenagers?”
Seems like a perfectly reasonable question which we should be allowed to ask.

Let’s vote with our AIBU.

stop using the women's toilets/changing facilities/services that are exempt by law.

They aren't "exempt by law". The law lets everyone in to all spaces as a general principle, but allows service providers to choose to either keep certain spaces single sex if this is considered proportionate, or make them mixed sex, either by letting in all males, or letting in MTF trans people.

And women will keep pressuring government and service providers to respect our needs and feelings as well as those of trans people.

Including males in the female category has no benefit to women whatsoever. I have never seen a TW do or say anything to support womens rights
It makes women less safe. Makes statistics useless. Makes sport unfair. Reduces privacy and dignity. This is about men getting what they want and trampling over women

@Ereshkigalangcleg

My kid needs this so to hell with women and girls' needs.

Exactly. I won't be having counselling for my perfectly rational belief that women's spaces should not include males, shared by the majority. Gaslighting.

But they do include males. Toilets Changing rooms Tents/cabins at camp Extra-cirricular Activities Parts in plays Boarding houses at school. Hospital wards. Head girl - my sd was head girl at her school, as voted on by her peers.

These are all things that my family have personally accessed, and you not liking it isn't going to magically make it disappear.

The glee that is demonstrated as females lose their rights and spaces clearly shows the mindset of those who want to trample over womens rights
Women and girls are irrelevant. Bit parts in the lives of males
The rejoicing of males after Fallon Fox smashed a female fighters face in was horrific.

But they do include males.

So you're arguing that everything is or should be mixed sex, and that no distinction should ever be made between males and females?

So what is the point of transition? If males can already do everything that females can, then what is that person transitioning from and to?

Just because something happens does not make it right

Just because some people do not understand does not justify changes

Just because men can take from women does not make them better or right

Hospital wards have long been criticised for not being single sex. You can't deny that most people want and expect single sex spaces.

Many people won't use mixed sex communal changing rooms.

Girl Guiding and schools have been criticised for policies where male and female children could be alone together overnight.

But it's nice to see you again stating that no one gives a fuck about what most (and it is most, despite your woke filter bubble) women and girls want, and we should all shut up about it. No.

The only fair compromise is third spaces, and sometimes for these males to use the spaces of their own sex, where third spaces cannot be achieved. Not to impose mixed sex spaces on women and girls against their will and without their consent. That they've got away with it, demonstrates the level of consideration for women and girls in this country, and many others. Zero.

@OldCrone

But they do include males.

So you're arguing that everything is or should be mixed sex, and that no distinction should ever be made between males and females?

So what is the point of transition? If males can already do everything that females can, then what is that person transitioning from and to?

Unhappiness with their body. It's not about make-up and dresses. You don't need to transition to wear a skirt.

But you said a few pages ago that you actually had concerns over the way your SD was being treated . Because they are all fawning over them your SD has a huge need for validation as a possible result?

This applies in other cases too. People elected fir roles they have zero qualifications for but voted in by others after woke points.

But now you are saying tough shit? So which is it? You are concerned about the excessive adoration that elevates your child's needs about all others ajd the potential consequences?

Or you don't care as well your chikdnis happy and you don't have tondeal with another melt down caused by being told no?

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Hospital wards have long been criticised for not being single sex. You can't deny that most people want and expect single sex spaces.

Many people won't use mixed sex communal changing rooms.

Girl Guiding and schools have been criticised for policies where male and female children could be alone together overnight.

But it's nice to see you again stating that no one gives a fuck about what most (and it is most, despite your woke filter bubble) women and girls want, and we should all shut up about it. No.

The only fair compromise is third spaces, and sometimes for these males to use the spaces of their own sex, where third spaces cannot be achieved. Not to impose mixed sex spaces on women and girls against their will and without their consent. That they've got away with it, demonstrates the level of consideration for women and girls in this country, and many others. Zero.

I'm not in a bubble, I'm in the real world where all that has happened to my family, personally, without any discomfort or awkwardness. So unless you're suggesting that every organisation, every school, every government agency, and everybody who works at/runs them are in my bubble too, maybe you need to consider that you're the one in the bubble.

The glee that is demonstrated as females lose their rights and spaces clearly shows the mindset of those who want to trample over womens rights

Yes, it's really quite telling how TRAs and their allies speak to women when they state their boundaries and say no to males. It tends to wake a few people up when they're not familiar with the male focused entitlement of the TRA movement and its lack of any care for women. There have been many women (and some men) on social media who have changed their views after discussion similar to this one. Sunlight.

The online abuse towards JK Rowling for saying things most people agree with was particularly shocking for many people.

But you said a few pages ago that you actually had concerns over the way your SD was being treated . Because they are all fawning over them your SD has a huge need for validation as a possible result?

Yes, she did.

It's not about what most women and girls want

I also find that most men say the same thing. Single sex

Because varies from thier own dignity , their belief that women need protection ,and their belief that they need protection ( false allegations usually)

Just because men can take from women does not make them better or right

This. Of course males tend to get their own way. We know this. But many of us are still going to keep saying no.

And that's why TRAs hate us.

@Whatwouldscullydo

But you said a few pages ago that you actually had concerns over the way your SD was being treated . Because they are all fawning over them your SD has a huge need for validation as a possible result?

This applies in other cases too. People elected fir roles they have zero qualifications for but voted in by others after woke points.

But now you are saying tough shit? So which is it? You are concerned about the excessive adoration that elevates your child's needs about all others ajd the potential consequences?

Or you don't care as well your chikdnis happy and you don't have tondeal with another melt down caused by being told no?

I do have concerns about the social aspect, I think the pedestal is very unhealthy, but I've also said from my very first post that I cannot and will not sway on service/facility provision. If I have to take it to court, I will. Luckily I've never needed too. Most everywhere has been extremely accommodating.

Unhappiness with their body.

Why should a male who is unhappy with his body be given access to women's spaces?

How can we tell the difference between a man who uses them because he is unhappy with his body and a man who is using them to prey on women?

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Hospital wards have long been criticised for not being single sex. You can't deny that most people want and expect single sex spaces.

Many people won't use mixed sex communal changing rooms.

Girl Guiding and schools have been criticised for policies where male and female children could be alone together overnight.

But it's nice to see you again stating that no one gives a fuck about what most (and it is most, despite your woke filter bubble) women and girls want, and we should all shut up about it. No.

The only fair compromise is third spaces, and sometimes for these males to use the spaces of their own sex, where third spaces cannot be achieved. Not to impose mixed sex spaces on women and girls against their will and without their consent. That they've got away with it, demonstrates the level of consideration for women and girls in this country, and many others. Zero.

100 % agree with this sentiment

And if a man is unhappy with his body, doesn't he need counselling to help him to accept it?

So this isn't even about your child then really is it. Because clearly some boundaries wouldn't go amiss there.

This is about you dealing with the fall out? So we have to go along with it all so you can have a quiet life ?

Why should your reluctantce to parent mean that women don't have a safe space away from males?

S

So unless you're suggesting that every organisation, every school, every government agency, and everybody who works at/runs them are in my bubble too, maybe you need to consider that you're the one in the bubble.

The government agencies in terms of policy are in the bubble and ideologically captured, there have been countless threads about this.

Every organisation and school isn't. There are many people who will disagree with trans ideology in those organisations. They aren't going to tell you that, and they also probably think that in your case, it's not so much of a problem to accommodate your stepchild, for the reasons we have discussed. I promise you (and you acknowledged) that they wouldn't feel that way about every male under the trans umbrella.

Hospital wards have long been criticised for not being single sex. You can't deny that most people want and expect single sex spaces.

Yes, we were told they were single sex, but they turned out to be single 'gender'.

I swear, if women are pushed out of sports, if women's toilets end up full of rapey men, if the womens refuge sector starts reporting significant problems with trans inclusion, if diversity policies lead to boardrooms becoming half men/half trans women then I've got your back - I will join your fight as I'm sure would many other trans people.

That's lovely, jj. These things are already happening. I could find instances of each of these for you if I didn't have to homeschool my children while also trying to work.

I have to say, though - I am not your high school bully. I have never bullied anyone. On the contrary. I've always been on the side of the underdog, which is probably why I've ended up fighting for women's rights, and I'd still defend you against any arse that threatened you. As would, I daresay, most of the women here. You can have our allyship when it comes to your safety and wellbeing. What you cannot have is our words, and biological facts.

Being female is a bodily experience. Every painful period I've had, every miscarriage, every abortion, every pregnancy, every birth, every failure to breastfeed, every rape, every sexual assault, every incidence of domestic violence, has been due to and enacted on and involved my female body. You can 'bio-essentialise' at me all you want - I cannot escape my body. It is what I am.

And odd as it sounds I am not sorry for it. I love being a woman, I am proud of it and grateful to my body for all of it. I'm also older now and have stronger boundaries - I cannot agree with males who say they share my experiences, they know what it is to be a woman. I am genuinely sorry for anyone suffering distress with their body. That we probably share - humans suffer through and with their bodies.

Women just need their own spaces, words and rights, to be recognised as different from those of males, that's all.

The celebrating of trans can only be seen as promotion. I have looked at 2 schools recently for my SN child. Open because of SN
Both told me with pride that that had a trans pupil, one said 2. Small schools. In both cases I questioned them about single sex spaces and they both fluffed the reply
They didn't tell me they had disabled/lesbian/ethnic minority pupils. Why is this something to be promoted.

Women have had to put up with MTF trans people masturbating in the next bed, exposing themselves, looking at porn in the next bed. These are all real incidents that have been reported by women in hospital.

Not all trans people, no.

Women and girls need privacy and dignity on hospital wards. Mixed sex wards are outdated.

It's not about make-up and dresses. You don't need to transition to wear a skirt.

Well, obviously. But we were discussing single sex spaces. You were saying they don't exist because males already use women's spaces. So according to you, everything is already mixed sex.

If males who identify as transgender can use women's spaces then so can all other males, so there is no such thing as single sex - not for women, anyway. Do you really view this as progress?