That women should not be banned from Social Media for asking the question ( Thread 4)

[Langrycleg]

Many women have been suspended from sm for asking the question:

“Do you believe that male sexed people should be allowed access to changing rooms and showers for female sexed people and teenagers?”
Seems like a perfectly reasonable question which we should be allowed to ask.

Let’s vote with our AIBU.

And your argument seems to be that males who take blockers and then cross sex hormones have no sex drive at all.

That's not a good thing. How can you see that as a good thing?

I don't understand

Men intimidating women doesn't require a high libido. It's about power, misogyny and entitlement.

And women can't assess risk or alter their reaction based on a set of invisible criteria which don't hold up anyway. I honestly don't know what to say to that sort of thinking.

And men violating women's boundaries are already displaying intimidating behaviour. Demanding entry to women's spaces instant sets the alarm off.

So sick of it being up to women to have proof they deserve the right to single sex spaces etc.

Why is no never enough.

@Whatsnewpussyhat

So sick of it being up to women to have proof they deserve the right to single sex spaces etc.

Why is no never enough.

Because you are not the tsar of women. You don't get to speak on behalf of us all.

Because you are not the tsar of women. You don't get to speak on behalf of us all

No, but this isn't about the odd woman is it. It's about protecting those at most risk and that isn't males of any identity. It's about females being a distinct and separate sex class with their own needs and protections.
The minority of women who are fine and dandy with sharing with men don't speak on behalf of women. Neither do males who identify as women.

Pretending sex is irrelevant won't stop the shit that happens to us because we're female, it means we won't be able to name it, speak about it using our own sex based terms because they they were taken by males.

I have young teen daughters with autism. No fucking way am I ok with them having to share changing rooms or toilets with male bodied people. @Fastedbrownie you don’t get to speak on behalf of all of our daughters or give away their privacy and safety.

When my daughter moved to high school she was told that the gender neutral toilets were more popular. She told the teacher that she would rather be directed to the girls toilet because she might have blood on her hands and would want the privacy of being able to wash them and that also the boys in the previous school used to spy on the girls getting dressed. Again she was told the gender neutral toilets were more popular. Again she insisted on the girls toilets. She has autism and she’s having to argue her way for a safe space. Enough is enough, this insanity needs to be brought into the open where women know about what is happening.

Because you are not the tsar of women. You don't get to speak on behalf of us all.

Consent is not transferable. You cannot consent to males in female-only spaces on my behalf. I don't consent. When the issue is about the boundaries we set and assert around our own bodies, and who gets to be in the same space as us when we are undressed and vulnerable, we are talking about consent. And that is not something you can do for me. My boundaries are not yours to give away.

@CharlieParley

Because you are not the tsar of women. You don't get to speak on behalf of us all.

Consent is not transferable. You cannot consent to males in female-only spaces on my behalf. I don't consent. When the issue is about the boundaries we set and assert around our own bodies, and who gets to be in the same space as us when we are undressed and vulnerable, we are talking about consent. And that is not something you can do for me. My boundaries are not yours to give away.

Well, I don't consent to you being there. Opps. Now what? The thing is, you get to consent to things that occur within your own personal bubble. You don't get to dictate anything else to anybody else. The rest of the world does not need your consent, blessing or permission to live their lives in the public sphere. Nobody is saying you have to like it, but it is not up to you.

"Because you are not the tsar of women. You don't get to speak on behalf of us all."

I say no too. And it only needs to take ONE. Just ONE

If transwomen are aware of this and I'm sure they are; why, if they do desperately want to be a woman, want to upset women?

It does feel like a wholly male -pattern arrogance and entitlement to me. Run off and get yourself your own spaces, as we women did in the 1850s

Lazy sods!

the public sphere agreed that it should be available to everyone and that's why sex separated spaces were created . To give everyone equal rights to participate, by giving people, especially women , places to feel safe for certain actions

Women appreciate that and are prepared to find ways to extend that inclusive solution to others

If you want to remove that , you are saying you are happy that you get to go where you like and you don't give a damn about anyone else

That's not inclusive

You live in a society not an island

This discussion frightens me a bit.

jj you have my full sympathy for the bullying you went through. Bullying is horrific and should be fought with all means.

I was bullied by girls as a child. I was also bullied by boys, but as a girl, the boys’ bullying came in the form of dates between the boys to touch me inappropriately. As a child (around 11-12), I would at all cost stay away from boys. I cannot imagine the horror of having any of them in the girls toilets. The girls would never, at least, try to touch me or make fun of my periods.

When I was 16 (I had changed school) and no longer bullied, I was very uncomfortable with male attention and the fact that males didn’t seem to take no for an answer, it was only a start of a discussion. My solution was to keep close to male friends. Funnily enough, males seemed to take a no from other males.

In these discussions, males seem not to be able to comprehend that a woman’s no is a no. Women should be kind, women should emphasise, women should find a solution to accommodate males. At no point do I get the sense that these males and male supporters genuinely care about the feelings of women, especially abused women, girls or women on the spectrum.

Males may do this without realising. They may interact in a different way due to male socialisation (which always is there). But in the process, they trample over women’s boundaries.

That should be “dares” between the boys, I would never in a million years have been alone with a boy if I could have avoided it

Well, I don't consent to you being there. Opps. Now what? The thing is, you get to consent to things that occur within your own personal bubble. You don't get to dictate anything else to anybody else. The rest of the world does not need your consent, blessing or permission to live their lives in the public sphere. Nobody is saying you have to like it, but it is not up to you.

It's perfectly reasonable for women to say they don't consent to males in their spaces. And keep saying it. Your analogy doesn't work.

And we will keep saying it. Your view, as people have pointed out, is very confused. If your stepchild passes completely, no one is going to notice them discreetly using female spaces.

You know that women are stating their boundaries because obvious males are taking the piss, and you say you get that, even have concerns about it. We are saying no. Any male who ignores that, is violating our perfectly reasonable boundaries. They don't have any respect for women and girls, as their own female friends can't give consent for other women by proxy. It's amazing that you can't see that.

In these discussions, males seem not to be able to comprehend that a woman’s no is a no. Women should be kind, women should emphasise, women should find a solution to accommodate males. At no point do I get the sense that these males and male supporters genuinely care about the feelings of women, especially abused women, girls or women on the spectrum.

Quite. Having a male person or their woke female friend override my wish for a female only space is a violation of my privacy and dignity and a complete disregard for the people the space is intended for. It's depressingly misogynistic.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

And we will keep saying it. Your view, as people have pointed out, is very confused. If your stepchild passes completely, no one is going to notice them discreetly using female spaces.

You know that women are stating their boundaries because obvious males are taking the piss, and you say you get that, even have concerns about it. We are saying no. Any male who ignores that, is violating our perfectly reasonable boundaries. They don't have any respect for women and girls, as their own female friends can't give consent for other women by proxy. It's amazing that you can't see that.

But we're back at the roadblock of me not wanting, needing, nor requiring your consent to take my child to the toilet. You're not my master, you're not my child's master, presumably you're not the owner of the establishment we are in. We do not need your permission, nor are you the moral judge of the lands to whoms word all laws must be written. If you feel uncomfortable around males, that's most unfortunate but it's not our problem, and in the same way my sd gets counselling for her issues, perhaps you need some for your own.

I'm not going to argue with you about this. I'm not going to stop pointing out the complete disrespect for women and girls.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

I'm not going to argue with you about this. I'm not going to stop pointing out the complete disrespect for women and girls.

And my sd and her friends are not going to stop using the women's toilets/changing facilities/services that are exempt by law.

Female spaces are being invaded by people they were never intended for, because of a male-centred ideological belief, and as I said, a complete lack of care for women and girls. It's not about individuals. My position on this is perfectly reasonable, whatever individual males do.

If you feel uncomfortable around males, that's most unfortunate but it's not our problem, and in the same way my sd gets counselling for her issues, perhaps you need some for your own.

Wow!!!

My kid needs this so to hell with women and girls' needs.

Yes we know about your stepchild. I'm not only talking about your stepchild. It's reasonable for women to expect a female only space when they are vulnerable. Males who respect women and girls respect this.

My kid needs this so to hell with women and girls' needs.

Exactly. I won't be having counselling for my perfectly rational belief that women's spaces should not include males, shared by the majority. Gaslighting.

If you feel uncomfortable around males, that's most unfortunate but it's not our problem, and in the same way my sd gets counselling for her issues, perhaps you need some for your own.

So are you saying that you feel that people who feel uncomfortable around males should get counselling so that they can get over it and learn to accept being in a space around males?