That women should not be banned from Social Media for asking the question ( Thread 4)

[Langrycleg]

Many women have been suspended from sm for asking the question:

“Do you believe that male sexed people should be allowed access to changing rooms and showers for female sexed people and teenagers?”
Seems like a perfectly reasonable question which we should be allowed to ask.

Let’s vote with our AIBU.

@Langrycleg

Lesbian Strength in Leeds was a wonderful event...but even then there were the TRAs at the back...luckily mostly kept apart. For every lesbian there, there were hundreds more cheering us on. We should have the right to organise separately from men and transwomen. We should have the right to our own places and we should be allowed to express this without being censored

For every lesbian there, there were hundreds more cheering us on.

Sure there were. Funny that unlike trans supportive lesbians they never seem to turn up on the day do they?

We should have the right to organise separately from men and transwomen.

You did, no-one stopped you.

How come people born male are allowed to call themselves lesbians, but the same people who support that will turn round and tell actual women that they're not really lesbians?

@PotholeParadies

How come people born male are allowed to call themselves lesbians, but the same people who support that will turn round and tell actual women that they're not really lesbians?

No need. J J already pointed out that they saw the irony. Completely.

@PotholeParadies

How come people born male are allowed to call themselves lesbians, but the same people who support that will turn round and tell actual women that they're not really lesbians?

Who is telling people they're not really lesbians?

If you say, as many do , that lesbians are transphobic if they reject transwomen , then you are denying that they are lesbians as lesbians are not attracted to transwomen because they are not female but male

If trans women are women and calling themselves lesbians, are they straight?
Precisely.

Who is telling people they're not really lesbians?

I quote: "political lesbians as well in a lot of cases, who self ID as lesbians for political reasons rather than it being an authentic sexuality."

Not the first time I've seen this, either.

Amazing that people can be arrogant enough to tell others what they find sexually attractive. I may not agree that female-attracted transwomen are entitled to call themselves lesbian, but I've never told them that they aren't genuinely sexually attracted to women.

@334bu

If you say, as many do , that lesbians are transphobic if they reject transwomen , then you are denying that they are lesbians as lesbians are not attracted to transwomen because they are not female but male

I never said lesbians who reject trans women are transphobic I emphatically said quite the opposite. Some lesbians might be attracted to trans women, some aren't, both are fine, both are lesbians.

@PotholeParadies

Who is telling people they're not really lesbians?

I quote: "political lesbians as well in a lot of cases, who self ID as lesbians for political reasons rather than it being an authentic sexuality."

Not the first time I've seen this, either.

Amazing that people can be arrogant enough to tell others what they find sexually attractive. I may not agree that female-attracted transwomen are entitled to call themselves lesbian, but I've never told them that they aren't genuinely sexually attracted to women.

If someone wants to self ID as a lesbian based on a political belief that women who have sex with men can't be true feminists then that is fine with me. They are lesbians. I never denied that.

A lesbian is only attracted to a person of the female sex, if they are attracted to transwomen then they are bisexual not lesbians as transwomen are male

A lesbian is only attracted to a person of the female sex, if they are attracted to transwomen then they are bisexual not lesbians as transwomen are male

And this in yet another reason why the word gender should never be conflated with the word sex. The result is horribly homophobic.

I also think it's quite remarkable that vast the majority of the outspoken transwomen appear to be sexually attracted (or at the very least want to control) women when they level their rapey threats at GC women and lesbians. Yet at the same time they claim to be exactly the same as us and spout the TWAW mantra and want access to our safe spaces.

And just a friendly reminder that access to our safe spaces is not enough, they also want to silence us on social media and want us sacked from our jobs for speaking up on social media.

And they sometimes succeed as they did with Helen Staniland who is the subject of these threads and they have succeeded with getting Joanna Cherry dismissed from front bench politics in the UK today.

Women are being silenced for raising these questions.

@334bu

A lesbian is only attracted to a person of the female sex, if they are attracted to transwomen then they are bisexual not lesbians as transwomen are male

I think how people understand and define their sexuality is a deeply personal thing and I would never dream being arrogant or rude enough to try and tell someone what their sexuality is. I also find the notion utterly ridiculous that any lesbian who looks at a trans women and thinks hmm maybe immediately has to renounce her lesbian identity.

I agree that I really don’t have an interest in other people’s sexuality. However, I do feel that it has to be respected whatever it is.

I am literally getting a headache trying to understand how woman is defined. I also cannot understand how lesbian is supposed to be defined these days.

However, assume that lesbian is a biological woman who only is attracted to other biological women. If that is the definition, then being attracted to a trans woman surely means that you are bisexual? Which of course Is completely valid.

However, assume that lesbian is a biological woman who only is attracted to other biological women. If that is the definition, then being attracted to a trans woman surely means that you are bisexual? Which of course Is completely valid.

A lesbian can be a woman who loves other women but is not necessarily sexually attracted to them but identifies that way for political reasons. A lesbian can be a biological woman attracted to biological women. A lesbian can be a woman who is attracted to women on the basis of gender and so might consider a trans women as a sexual partner. A lesbian can be a woman who is in a relationship with a man because she is not publicly out as someone attracted to women yet. All of these seem legitimate to me and I would never dream of telling someone they aren't a lesbian based on my subjective opinion of her sexuality.

So basically there is no definition of what a lesbian is?

I find this very confusing. I respect people’s sexuality and privacy and wouldn’t dream of asking anyone about their sexuality.

But why have a name for something if it means nothing?

If someone wants to self ID as a lesbian based on a political belief that women who have sex with men can't be true feminists then that is fine with me. They are lesbians.

You what? That makes no sense at all.

A lesbian can be a woman who loves other women but is not necessarily sexually attracted to them but identifies that way for political reasons. A lesbian can be a biological woman attracted to biological women. A lesbian can be a woman who is attracted to women on the basis of gender and so might consider a trans women as a sexual partner. A lesbian can be a woman who is in a relationship with a man because she is not publicly out as someone attracted to women yet. All of these seem legitimate to me and I would never dream of telling someone they aren't a lesbian based on my subjective opinion of her sexuality.
And that is pure unadulterated bollocks.

A lesbian can be a woman who is attracted to women on the basis of gender and so might consider a trans women as a sexual partner

Then they are not same sex attracted women I.e. lesbians. If they are attracted to male transwomen they are either heterosexual or bisexual.

So becuase some lesbians may not have come out yet and are still with a male, it creates enough confusion as to explain how you think that 2 born males in a relationship can also be called lesbians

@334bu

*A lesbian can be a woman who is attracted to women on the basis of gender and so might consider a trans women as a sexual partner*

Then they are not same sex attracted women I.e. lesbians. If they are attracted to male transwomen they are either heterosexual or bisexual.

Says you, lots of lesbians think otherwise. I know a lesbian who is a swinger who will occassionally have sex with a man at a party of something but only has relationships with women, that's legitimate too. Who the fuck is anyone else to say otherwise.

@borntobequiet

If someone wants to self ID as a lesbian based on a political belief that women who have sex with men can't be true feminists then that is fine with me. They are lesbians.

You what? That makes no sense at all.

"all feminists can and should be lesbians. Our definition of a political lesbian is a woman-identified woman who does not fuck men. It does not mean compulsory sexual activity with women."

As Sheila Jeffrey's group emphatically stated in the 70s. Julie Bindel explains more: www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2009/jan/30/women-gayrights

I dare you to tell Shiela Jeffreys she's not a lesbian.

Dear lord, do you think Eddie Izzard is a lesbian too?