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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

That women should not be banned from Social Media for asking the question ( Thread 4)

999 replies

Langrycleg · 01/02/2021 10:56

Many women have been suspended from sm for asking the question:

“Do you believe that male sexed people should be allowed access to changing rooms and showers for female sexed people and teenagers?”
Seems like a perfectly reasonable question which we should be allowed to ask.

Let’s vote with our AIBU.

OP posts:
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12
Quaagars · 01/02/2021 20:15

And she is now been moved to a safe space because she has been threatened with a violent attack by a male

That's awful, do you have a link? Not seen this reported or mentioned anywhere, you'd think it would be

lifeturnsonadime · 01/02/2021 20:17

twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/1356233346565730304

jj1968 · 01/02/2021 20:18

@lifeturnsonadime

Politicians being removed from their posts are now being silenced? Just wait until you hear about elections.

Don't be so patronising.

The silencing of Joanna Cherry is blatant.

She's still an MP, she's hardly been silenced. Political reshuffles happen all the time, it's the nature of politics. She was out of step with the leadership and plotting against her, of course she went, her stance on trans people may have been a part of that but even if she was the most trans inclusive person in the world she'd still have been out eventually. There is no divine right to a senior political role, you play the game, make your moves and take the consequences.
lifeturnsonadime · 01/02/2021 20:18

I don't think it linked properly I'm not great at tech.

See new Tweets
Conversation
Joanna Cherry QC
@joannaccherry
Action & inaction have consequences. Tonight I’ve received a vicious threat from a man to my personal safety. The matter has been reported to Police Scotland & I’m somewhere safe. Thank you for all the lovely messages of support
7:25 PM · Feb 1, 2021·Twitter for iPhone

lifeturnsonadime · 01/02/2021 20:19

Sorry it's not right that she's been moved but she has moved.

334bu · 01/02/2021 20:23

It's dog whistly, and people who haven't seen these type of threads before will be like "of course women shouldn't be banned for just asking a question, this is scary"
When it's so much more than that

Quaggars are women not at risk if they are forced to share intimate spaces with males with intact genitalia. All other males are excluded so what is different about the subset of males who identify as female.?

gardenbird48 · 01/02/2021 20:31

@jj1968

tbf Baroness Ruth Hunt, after declaring in 2015 that Stonewall was going to focus on the trans also accused a lesbian group at Pride of transphobia because they said lesbians don't have penises. I think Ruth is not really on the side of most lesbians.

I rather suspect it was actually because they disrupted an event intended to be a celebration of LGBT lives with banners claiming trans people were erasing lesbians. And given the overwhelming support for trans people from lesbians after that incident then her views do not seem to be that controversial within the LGB community.

So lesbians are not welcome at Pride any more?

Or is it just lesbians that don’t want to be involved with penises??

33,000+ Lesbian, Gay and Bi people feel strongly that Stonewall are not on their side any more. They have joined a new LGB group that recognise and accept their same sex attraction where Stonewall tries to deny it.

lifeturnsonadime · 01/02/2021 20:35

Political reshuffles happen all the time

Joanna Cherry was prominent in presenting Scotlands position in the Brexit negotiations, she's a QC.

Given that she is the ideal candidate to deal with the legal ramifications of Scottish Independence which is the primary aim of the SNP I just don't buy it. Sorry.

Seemingly nor does Owen Jones who tweeted that he felt the Labour Party should follow the SNP and dismiss it's transphobes, he deleted the tweet soon after but it has been screenshotted and is available as a screenshot to see.

But put your own spin on it JJ .

Most people can see the truth.

jj1968 · 01/02/2021 20:41

So lesbians are not welcome at Pride any more?

Lesbians are obviously very welcome at Pride as the thousands of lesbians who attend Pride demonstrates. But those who turn up to disrupt it and sow antipathy towards trans people at an event intended to celebrate all LGBT people are not welcome. Luckily there's only about a dozen of them and they have to draft in straight people to make up the numbers.

33,000+ Lesbian, Gay and Bi people feel strongly that Stonewall are not on their side any more. They have joined a new LGB group that recognise and accept their same sex attraction where Stonewall tries to deny it.

Oh my aching sides. If by joined you mean followed on twitter and if by lesbian, gay and bi you mean mostly straight people then yes you are entirely correct.

ScreamingBeans · 01/02/2021 20:54

So lesbians like this one are welcome, but lesbians who are women are not.

Got it.

CoffeeTeaChocolate · 01/02/2021 21:01

I am getting a headache from trying to understand the terminology here.

What is straight?

If trans women are women and calling themselves lesbians, are they straight?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/02/2021 21:02

Disruption is a protest. It was glorious to watch them lead the parade and speak their truth. They had every right to be there, as lesbians.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/02/2021 21:05

The silencing of Joanna Cherry is blatant.

It really is.

Datun · 01/02/2021 21:06

@CoffeeTeaChocolate

I am getting a headache from trying to understand the terminology here.

What is straight?

If trans women are women and calling themselves lesbians, are they straight?

To jj, a lesbian is a person of either sex who is attracted to another person of either sex. So is a gay man. Also a straight man and a straight woman.

Easy when you how.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/02/2021 21:08

can show you some pictures if you want. Imagine gender critical people being able to get people out on the streets like this.

It's absolutely cost free. A lovely day out. Make a twee placard. Paint your face in the trans flag. Have some cider. Not so for GC women.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/02/2021 21:09

That's about it Datun Grin

334bu · 01/02/2021 21:09

Transwomen attracted to members of the female sex are heterosexual

jj1968 · 01/02/2021 21:11

[quote ScreamingBeans]So lesbians like this one are welcome, but lesbians who are women are not.

Got it.

[/quote] Have you ever been to Pride? There are thousands of lesbians present who are womens, tens of thousands in London. People who seek to disrupt the event or provoke hostility towards one of the groups the event is for are unwelcome, obviously. They are perfectly welcome to set up their own event as they did at the Leeds Lesbian Strength march. Not many people turned up but they did their best.
Sparkyduchess · 01/02/2021 21:15

Jj, you asked on the previous thread whether anyone had ever encountered a trans woman in a a female space.

I posted nearly 2 years ago of my experience - since then, my goddaughter has given up kick boxing (didn’t fancy her chances against a trans girl), and the local athletics team is fielding 2 males on the women’s team who are depriving 2 women of a place.

I live in a suburb of a large city, this is impacting women.

“I used to use a local gym fortnightly, to work with a trainer. I have severe rheumatoid arthritis, and got to the point where I was regularly falling because I’d stand up, and my hip/knee wouldn’t behave as expected and I’d face plant.

I found a trainer with experience of helping strengthen muscle to compensate such that I could regain some stability, and worked with him very successfully for 18 months- just 2 falls in that time.

A while ago, I finished my session and went to get changed. There was a middle aged man in the changing room, sitting in a pair of shorts and nothing else.

I told him he was in the wrong place, and he told me he was a woman and had the right to be there.

I grabbed my stuff and spoke to a member of staff on my way out. They agreed with him, and went as far as telling me that if I was so unkind as to deny him his right to be in the ladies changing room then I should find another gym and examine my bigotry (precise wording was “she is a woman, if you find you’re uncomfortable with changing in front of her then that’s your problem “). I should have argued but I was so thrown I just walked out.

You can believe or disbelieve as you wish.

For those who are rolling their eyes and saying it never happens, it DOES.”

jj1968 · 01/02/2021 21:18

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Disruption is a protest. It was glorious to watch them lead the parade and speak their truth. They had every right to be there, as lesbians.
Somewhat ironically political lesbians as well in a lot of cases, who self ID as lesbians for political reasons rather than it being an authentic sexuality.
Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/02/2021 21:26

How awful Sparkyduchess. They need to make clear their female changing rooms are mixed sex so that women can make informed choices.

Winesalot · 01/02/2021 21:29

Somewhat ironically political lesbians as well in a lot of cases, who self ID as lesbians for political reasons rather than it being an authentic sexuality.

Glad to see you are seeing the irony there. On all levels. Indeed.

LangClegsInSpace · 01/02/2021 21:32

Pages behind and never likely to catch up so apologies if I repeat anyone.

Was it sexual harassment when GC activists shouted penis over everything Monroe Bergdof tried to say on the Channel 4 show a couple of years ago?

Channel 4 wanted a great big ugly bunfight on the telly and they engineered exactly that. They encouraged people to heckle. It was unfair on all the participants.

perspicats.wordpress.com/2018/05/11/the-genderquake-debate-fiasco-and-the-mccarthyism-that-followed/

whittlings.blogspot.com/2018/05/genderquake-diversity-debate-briefing.html

Nevertheless, Bergdorf managed to say plenty despite being heckled a few times. Activists certainly did not shout 'penis' over everything that Bergdorf said. The heckling was rude but absolutely on topic, just as it's on topic in this discussion.

We will get nowhere with this debate while so many of the issues are considered too impolite for women to mention.

Or when GC activists shove cameras in people's crotches and laugh about the 'bulge'? Did you condemn that?

I think I know what this refers to. Venice Allen made a video, about 2 minutes long, of some dreadful TRA protest against women's rights. One of the TRAs came right up and shoved their camera in Venice's face. The activist was a lot bigger than her and the gesture seemed quite agressive. She lowered her camera in response and what happens if you lower your camera from someone's face when they're standing about a foot away is that you end up with footage of lower areas of their body. Venice said something like 'Oops, bit of a bulge there' because there was, because the TRA had a penis and was wearing very tight clothing, and because Venice is sometimes tactless (and no I won't condemn her for that). I have no idea whether that very obviously male TRA identified as a woman or as non-binary, or whether they were simply a man who had decided to attend a TRA protest as an 'ally' in very tight trousers. She wasn't shoving cameras in people's crotches she was having a 'don't know where to look' moment.

Incidentally, another woman has recently been censured and censored by Twitter for apparently breaching the privacy of a man who sent her a whole stream of unsolicited dick pics.

Men making women 'look at my penis' is nothing new. DMum has plenty of tales of men exposing themselves to her when she was a child in the 1930's and 40's.

If people don't want women to talk about penises because it's too impolite then it would be best if everyone who has a penis, however they indentify, kept it away from women, except when explicitly invited to do otherwise.

334bu · 01/02/2021 21:33

"told him he was in the wrong place, and he told me he was a woman and had the right to be there

Such an exhibition of male entitlement, to hell with the feelings of others as long as their feelings are validated

Langrycleg · 01/02/2021 21:38

Lesbian Strength in Leeds was a wonderful event...but even then there were the TRAs at the back...luckily mostly kept apart. For every lesbian there, there were hundreds more cheering us on. We should have the right to organise separately from men and transwomen. We should have the right to our own places and we should be allowed to express this without being censored

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