to think that the effect on children's mental health is exaggerated?

[SmudgeButt]

Look I have no doubt that lots of kids are missing their friends, school, grandparents. And all of these things will effect their development and mental health. But is it really that bad a situation compared to other things in the past?? Or is it just that we talk about it a whole nauseatingly more?

I'm thinking that the current situation isn't a patch on the effect of living in a country that's at war - thinking back to WW2 and the effect of being suddenly shipped off to strangers in the countryside or even to a different country. Thinking of those children in Europe who suddenly had to fend for themselves in Jewish ghettos or concentration camps.

People that survived (yes a lot didn't as they were murdered) no doubt had lifetime impacts but so many of their children say "dad was always cheerful, never talked about what happened".

AIBU to think that in a few years kids of today will say "wow, that was weird and I'm glad it's over, now let's get one with life" ?

@IDontMindMarmite

There's been more deaths than ww2 and ww1 combined so let's not underestimate the fear we are living in.

Sorry if this point has been addressed already but this is not true. Quickly checked with Wilipedia: 895,000 - World War I casualties, World War 2 - c500,000. Were you thinking of the American statistics of covid deaths?

the point about children having suffered more in conflicts, that may be true, there are children starving now in Yemen due to war there, but how do you expect children in this country to quantify their experience of Covid isolation against unknown and to them unimaginable historical or current events in other countries? They can only live their own experience which will be different in every family.

I think combining "he was always cheerful and never talked about his experience" in reference to former servicemen's experience is naive. Have you not heard of PTSD? Many have suffered in silence over the years or taken it out in private on their families or turned to drink when it was maybe regarded as more normal.

Also when do people think those who have experienced horrific events are going to discuss it with families and friends? Casually at the dinner table, make a special appointment to suddenly throw it into their kids' lives? the more sensitive survivors would not want to inflict horrors on others and many would have the attitude that repression and not dwelling were more healthy.

There was a very interesting programme on BBC2 the other night - The Windermere Boys/Children - about Jewish child survivors of the holocaust who were brought to Britain after the 2WW for rehabilitation and it clearly showed the attitude of 'Right, that's over, pick yourself up and build yourself up physically to get on with life'. The horror those children experienced was unimaginable and incommunicable to even well-meaning helpers let alone the general public who just expected gratitude for being alive. Afterwards some of the now elderly survivors were shown and they were deeply grateful but they must also have been wounded beyond words.

We just resolved to be positive about it and the kids have taken their cue from that.

Lovely.

You do understand though, that not all children are able to simply ‘take their cue’ from parents being positive?

We were positive about it. I still have 2 out of 3 very poorly and under CAMHs.

And re the treehouse in the garden many kids don’t have a garden let alone one big enough to build circuits in or to contain a tree. Many parents are on their knees with home schooling, work, worry and other commitments. Putting up tents and camping out won’t be high in their priority list.

Fine I get not all kids will be struggling but many are. Belittling and denying that alongside blaming parents who are trying their absolute best on a parenting site is more than a little disappointing.

I heard on radio it was more civilian deaths than there was in the wars not actual deaths from the wars, a large proportion of the population were sent off to fight as soldiers so weren’t classed as civilians

Good point sunset

I think you are coming from a position of not having experienced the inequality that this pandemic has thrown up if you are saying 'Come on, we are over playing children's MH'. Until you have a glimpse into what this is doing to children who do not have resources, safety and access to education I really think you do not have a clue what you are talking about.

There's been more deaths than ww2 and ww1 combined so let's not underestimate the fear we are living in.

An elderly person dying of covid isn't the same as a teenager having his legs torn off by shrapnel and bleeding out in a trench though.

Not to say that I don't value the lives of old people as sadly seems to be the case with many people. But I really doubt many people would trade lockdown with a soldier in the trenches, having to jump over the edge and run into machine gun fire on the blow of a whistle.

@montysma1

My kids are having an utter blast. They have taught themselves to bake, improved musical instrument playing x 1000, read countless books, are fit as fleas having built circuit courses in the garden, have built a tree house, are in the garden until dragged indoors even in bad weather, speak to friends every day. In the lovely weather during first lock down my husband put a tent up and he and they slept out every night for weeks, trooping in for breakfast in the morning. They will be gutted to go back to school and I am enjoying it too. We just resolved to be positive about it and the kids have taken their cue from that.

Oh how lovely for them. And what about if you weren't able to offer them musical instruments, or countless books, or materials for a treehouse, or a garden to pitch their tent in, or even anything to eat when they all come trooping in for breakfast? It's easy to be positive when you have plenty of money, resources and space.

@Morph2lcfc

I heard on radio it was more civilian deaths than there was in the wars not actual deaths from the wars, a large proportion of the population were sent off to fight as soldiers so weren’t classed as civilians

Yeah, I thought 100k people died in the Battle of the Somme alone?

It is easier to be positive if you have resources.

When children have severe MH issues this is undoubtedly horrific. Genuinely awful. Likewise for people struggling with their own MH this is awful.

However where people are in “ok” situations I do think people need to be more open to seeing the positives. hamnet talks about sitting and crying in class and how the teacher “hated her”... meaning blaming someone else. This is something I see in kids I see who’s parents are negative, always blaming someone else, unable to find strategies to cope with the less pleasant aspects of life. The children I see who are positive about lockdown have parents who have taught them to find the positives.

There are a lot of people on here who just won’t acknowledge what this is doing to a younger generation.

They minimise, harp on about resilience, make out it’s the parents fault and so on.

I suppose they just can’t face up to the facts before them. Which is problematic, because we need to be making difficult decisions in the full knowledge of the consequences for young people. Head in the sand will bite us in the arse very quickly

Yep. If you’re in a position in life where the virus is the only thing you fear, and you have a nice house and garden and are enjoying working from home (if you work) and a bit of clapping on a Thursday, and you think everyone should just ‘stay the fuck at home’, then hearing about the negative effects of the lockdowns on other people and their children is just plain annoying. They just aren’t as resilient as you are, and they aren’t as resilient as some people you chatted to who survived the war and are fine.

I’m not anti-lockdown, I entirely see that a collapsed NHS would have been a disaster for everyone in our society. But I agree with you - the Coronavirus measures will have negative consequences in other areas. Only a complete blithering idiot could deny that. We have to be honest with ourselves about those negative consequences.

Most children will be fine and bounce back.
Taking cues from parents not to panic etc is great.
Some will even thrive in comparison with normal life.

But for a significant minority of children who for whatever reason were more vulnerable, this pandemic is having a major impact on their mental health. What exacerbates it is they have no real access to usual first step support such as friends, school, sports, clubs. Everything is by zoom and has to be organised up front. Higher level support is harder to access and is still by zoom. CAMHS was already underfunded and can generally only even attempt to help the most serious cases.

@littleposh what reality is being denied and what narrative is it that I have? Just because my opinion doesn't fit in with your narrative doesn't mean that its wrong.

Of course there are kids out there with mental health issues, that's undeniable. Nor did I say any different (if I did, please point out where). However we as a society are becoming very quick to label any negative feelings or emotions as mental ill health. This is doing our children a great disservice in that it's handing over the responsibility to the medical profession to deal with said emotional dysregulation instead of young people being able to self regulate and manage these feelings and emotions in a healthy manner.

Obviously this doesn't cover all young people and there are some kids who do need mental health input. However we are definitely widening the definition of mental ill health to cover the normal human experience.

Exactly awa - every bump in the road is a mental health issue now for some people

My kids are having an utter blast. They have taught themselves to bake, improved musical instrument playing x 1000, read countless books, are fit as fleas having built circuit courses in the garden, have built a tree house, are in the garden until dragged indoors even in bad weather, speak to friends every day. In the lovely weather during first lock down my husband put a tent up and he and they slept out every night for weeks, trooping in for breakfast in the morning. They will be gutted to go back to school and I am enjoying it too. We just resolved to be positive about it and the kids have taken their cue from that.

I’m guessing your kids may need a lot of help with self-awareness though.

Embarrassing.

I’ve seen lots of reporting on it, but I haven’t seen it trickle through into work yet. Ready and prepared though.

I would have been of the same opinion as you op in the first lock down. However when school finally started back it was clear one of my dcs had been badly mentally affected by the whole thing. It took several weeks, school involvement to get her back into school and happy to be there. It was horrible to see and feel so helpless. I'm just hoping she's ok this time.

My once laid back, fearless and full of joy 10 year old cries every night scared to go to sleep as he's terrified of dying. This started in about April last year, stopped in the summer and has started again with this lockdown. I'm not comparing it to anything else because that's utterly pointless but yes, this pandemic has had a detrimental affect on him. Stop being an ignorant dick.

You're right that most children are resilient and will bounce back.But that resilience depend on children having protective factors in place, most importantly adults who care for them and can help them to process their anxieties and get help for them if they are not coping. However many adults are also anxious and struggling which makes it harder for them to help their children process difficult emotions.
Also, as always, the most vulnerable children will have the most difficulties and the least support - those with parents who cannot care for them well for whatever reason, children who already have poor mental or physical health, abused children, etc.
I work with teenagers who have been excluded from school and I fully expect to be dealing with the fallout from the pandemic and lockdown and the effect on learning for many years to come.

I’m guessing your kids may need a lot of help with self-awareness though.

You sound pleasant.

We had a mental health crisis before this. Obviously it's been made worse.

But there are many many children dealing with a lot worse right now. Children in refugee camps, living in war torn countries or even in this country children in abusive homes or homes with no heating or no food.
This situation is shit for lots of people but we do need to teach our kids resilience. It won't be forever.

happylittlechick

You really don’t understand the full picture of mental health, it often doesn’t work like that.

And sorry others having it worse in refugee camps is irrelevant for struggling children it really is.

Teens dying in the trenches in WW2 really aren’t going to stop a mental health crisis today. Kids in the 40s would have been mostly oblivious to much of the horror- no tv, limited radio and just newspapers for news which they probably weren’t reading.

Dragging WW2 into this is ridiculous.

People need to shut the fuck up about resilience and good parenting. Mental health disorders have fuck all to do with parenting.
When I was a child (7 years old). I saw my friend collapse, 12 hours later they were dead. My mum remembers a few weeks later me getting ill and asking her if I was going to die like my friend. She did all the right things explained what had happened, that it wouldnt happen to be etc. I was still left with anxiety that crippled me through my teenage years and during the pandemic has reared its head again. From the outside I would seem resilient but I'm massively affected by what I saw as a child.
Its childrens mental health awareness week next week and I imagine many schools will be doing work surrounding it. So maybe all the people that are so dismissive should miss homeschool next week saves giving those opinions to your kids.