In-laws have declined the vaccine... AIBU?

[HotGlueGun]

So my in-laws (early 70s) have declined to have the vaccine. They are in our childcare bubble and so we see them regularly. They also ask us to do their shopping. WIBU to a) stop doing their shopping for them and b) reduce/ stop their contact with the kids? I'm really cross about but appreciate that they have free will and it's their choice. But resent having to do shopping for them... it's like they are happy for us to be at risk and aren't prepared to take reasonable steps to reduce their vulnerability and eliminate the risk for themselves/ the wider community.

They can decide what they like but they are not making an informed decision if they cut themselves off from most outside information and rely and random rumourmongers.

Well, that’s what most people say about most people who have decided against it. There are a lot of accusations flying around. I say just leave adults to make up their own minds.

Well, that’s what most people say about most people who have decided against it. There are a lot of accusations flying around. I say just leave adults to make up their own minds.

That is how the OP has described their life - largely off grid and little outside info. Claiming (as it was upthread) that they are making an informed decision is not correct.

That is how the OP has described their life - largely off grid and little outside info. Claiming (as it was upthread) that they are making an informed decision is not correct.

I’m not saying they’re making an informed decision, just that they are entitled to make their own decision, informed or not.

I’m not saying they’re making an informed decision, just that they are entitled to make their own decision, informed or not

Oh sure i agree with that. They are also entitled to be judged for it and accept the consequences (which is all fine when a decision only affects the decider but these things rarely do only affect one person).

They are also entitled to be judged for it and accept the consequences...

Depends what you mean by ‘the consequences’. I’m finding more and more that, by that, people mean ‘their punishment, which I have decided to inflict because I don’t like their decision.’

@Viviennemary

I wouldn't approve of their choice. But it is up to them. I don't think I'd stop doing their shopping as they are elderly.,

They're not 'elderly' in their early 70s unless they have health conditions that cause them problems.

I'm 72. I'm fit and healthy, I don't need anyone to shop for me. I'm more than capable of shopping for myself as are the vast majority of people I know in their 70s and 80s. I know several people in their 70s and 80s still working or running businesses.

They're clearly well enough to look after children, which I would think is harder work than going round a supermarket and picking up a weeks shopping.

They are adults, they've made the decision not to help protect themselves from this virus so they need to face up to the consequences of their actions.

There's absolutely not reason for you to continue to do their shopping OP.

I would definitely have to approach this from the angle that refusing the vaccine indicates they aren't worried about the risk, and therefore any 'special measures' that were being taken (eg you doing the shopping for them) are no longer required.

It is entirely their right not to have the vaccine (however stupid I personally believe that decision to be) but they can't expect you to bend over backwards to facilitate it

If they don't think it's safe for them to go shopping then why aren't they taking the steps offered to protect themselves?! Are they planning to never leave the house again?

I don’t agree with the couple of posters who suggest all adults, by the nature of being adult should be left to make a choice, even without fuller information, just because they are adults. It is because if this, that Op and her family are right to try and get the information to the PiL...and fortunately as the jab is not a one-time opportunity, the PiL will have the chance to think and make an informed decision and perhaps choose the vaccine. They might not change their minds, but at least they will have had a chance to make an informed decision.

There are a number of adults who are vulnerable and might not have access to the full information or might have access but not be able to understand it. Poverty could be a barrier if people cannot access TV or internet or newspaper due to cost and therefore, whilst being isolated from the world just don’t know the facts about the vaccines. They are vulnerable to receiving no information or to only hearing misinformation from their one or two contacts who might be supporters of conspiracy theories.
Other groups who could be vulnerable and might struggle to make an informed choice are those who might be denied information through controlling individuals or being in the power of controlling organisations - possibly political or religious organisations who might control information. Other groups might struggle to make choices or understand or access information due to severe special educational needs or physical needs and there will be measures in place for others to make choices for them about this as they do for lots of other issues.

It is not interfering in people’s freedom to choose, to provide information to them to help them choose. If the anti-vaccers and free-choice people are so confident about their views, they shouldn’t fear people reading and being given access to the information....as they will still then be able to choose and the facts should speak for themselves.

The PiL absolutely should be able to choose for themselves and it could be they still opt not to have the jab after understanding the details a bit more. That will be their choice and Op and society will b e to accept it and we alll know some people won’t choose to have it. We will have to live with that. Op will have to them decide if to continue contact with the kids or shopping and the PiL will need to decide if they stay isolated once restrictions are lifted or not....there are numerous consequences of their choice and they need to understand those too, rather than just deciding not to vaccinate without appreciating the other knock on effects for them, their family and possibly wider society.

At the moment though, they havent had a chance to choose. It hasn’t been the case that when the TV news came on, they chose to turn it off because they did t want to hear about Covid or the vaccine. They just don’t have that information available to them.

It is a challenge to get the information out to everyone, but it is really important that we do and that families help with this. People will the. Understand it differently and place emphasis on different aspects and not all reach the same choice about vaccination...that’s their choice and up to them.

@tara66

So for those saying - ''their body - their choice'' - NO - if they end up in hospital stupid!!

Likewise if they end up in hospital with a reaction or the third person to then have multiple sclerosis following the vaccine..

I don’t agree with the couple of posters who suggest all adults, by the nature of being adult should be left to make a choice, even without fuller information, just because they are adults. It is because if this, that Op and her family are right to try and get the information to the PiL...and fortunately as the jab is not a one-time opportunity, the PiL will have the chance to think and make an informed decision and perhaps choose the vaccine. They might not change their minds, but at least they will have had a chance to make an informed decision.

People treating me like this (like an ignorant child for whom they are quasi-responsible) would be quickly shown the door in my life. I don’t need ‘fuller information’, I need mutual respect between me and people I allow to have relationships with me.

Likewise if they end up in hospital with a reaction or the third person to then have multiple sclerosis following the vaccine..

Can you explain this comment a bit more please? I'm not quite following, sorry? Are you suggesting that someone could get MS as a result of taking a Covid 19 vaccine?

If so, what is your source? I thought that MS was a progressive degenerative disease, not a reaction to a drug. Sounds very strange to me.

Grannycurls:
So if I don't get the vaccine, and prefer to protect myself by staying at home, except for walks in the forest, and ask my daughter to do shopping for me thus further restricting my movements, surely nobody could object?

On the contrary, Grannycurls, we are entitled to object, on moral grounds.

You live as part of our society, for all that you go 'walking in the woods' and so on, rather than gathering as part of a crowd. And by not getting vaccinated, you put other members of this society at risk.

Think about it: you are not wholly isolated from other members of society. Your daughter going shopping connects you in a relevant way. And there are other ways. Think about it.

You may think you have good reasons not to get vaccinated, but it is unlikely your thought tracks the truth about this. (In the absence of a view of your reasons, we are entitled to assess the probability they are good reasons; there are vanishingly few such good reasons.)

Yes, you have the right to think as you do, and likewise the right not to get vaccinated if you do not wish to do so. But, equally, those of us put at risk by your selfishness have the right to point out that not getting the vaccination makes you, all things considered, a bad person.

Some people are happy to do wrong -- happy to be bad people. Are you one of those people, Grannycurls ? Are you happy to be a bad person? If not, you should get vaccinated.

Some people are happy to do wrong -- happy to be bad people. Are you one of those people, Grannycurls ? Are you happy to be a bad person? If not, you should get vaccinated.

No reasonable person is going to pay any attention to this crude emotional blackmail.

The vaccine does not even stop you from catching or spreading it.

I’m actually really surprised by many answers here and completely with you OP. I would be absolutely livid. The fact that the people we’ve been put in lockdown for all last year and this year refuse to have the vaccine is just....I don’t have words.
Actually I do. f* them.
Now on a more peaceful note, I would be keeping my judgment to myself but absolutely refuse to do anything more for them.
Your DH can take care of their shopping or they can hire someone to do it.

Definitely not unreasonable. They chose to be ignorant, you chose to be safe.

@AStudyinPink

Some people are happy to do wrong -- happy to be bad people. Are you one of those people, Grannycurls ? Are you happy to be a bad person? If not, you should get vaccinated.

No reasonable person is going to pay any attention to this crude emotional blackmail.

You may be right. But no reasonable person is going to refuse the vaccine unless they are immoral as well as reasonable. (Sadly, it seems this is a real possibility, albeit we hope rare.) Possibly such people are beyond being swayed to do the right thing.

Unreasonable people, on the other hand? Well, how are we to get them to do the right thing?

And, just perhaps, there are some who may be swayed by reason to do the right thing after all, following a foray into irrational behaviour such as refusing the vaccine.

We can but hope.

You may be right. But no reasonable person is going to refuse the vaccine unless they are immoral as well as reasonable.

You’re not in charge of other people in quite the way you think, or the arbiter of everyone else’s morality. Bog off.

Some people are happy to do wrong -- happy to be bad people. Are you one of those people, Grannycurls ? Are you happy to be a bad person? If not, you should get vaccinated.

Some of the lowest rates of vaccine take up are from the Afro Caribbean community - 50% in Birmingham.
Can’t wait to hear you say that to them.

yabu if you had the vaccine you can still get the illness so being near anyone is still a risk. Don't alienate family over their choices.

@almostvalentines

Likewise if they end up in hospital with a reaction or the third person to then have multiple sclerosis following the vaccine..

Can you explain this comment a bit more please? I'm not quite following, sorry? Are you suggesting that someone could get MS as a result of taking a Covid 19 vaccine?

If so, what is your source? I thought that MS was a progressive degenerative disease, not a reaction to a drug. Sounds very strange to me.

There have been two cases so far with one confirmed MS in UK following the vaccination and a second most likely as well. This is why the USA won't touch the astrazeneca vaccine.

@AStudyinPink

You may be right. But no reasonable person is going to refuse the vaccine unless they are immoral as well as reasonable.

You’re not in charge of other people in quite the way you think, or the arbiter of everyone else’s morality. Bog off.

I make nor have made any claims to be in charge of others or to arbitrate morality. Nor do I think what you say I think.

If you think I am wrong, OK, say so and explain why. Maybe you will convince me (and others). Otherwise, well 'Bog off' seems more appropriate for the unreasonable. Take your own advice.

@MotherExtraordinaire that case of MS was previously existing but had not yet been diagnosed when the vaccine was given. The independent investigation confirmed that to be so.

The second case wasn't MS, but transverse myelitis. While I've not yet checked if that was confirmed, but it is also thought not to be connected to the vaccine.

I agree that everyone has the right to decide what goes into their body. However, those who have so far expected others to facilitate their alternative means of remaining safe (such as getting other people to do their shopping for them) should not expect that arrangement to continue if they've turned down the chance to be independent of them.