To have become a Brexiteer yesterday?

[Mentum]

I was so Remain, I was devastated when we left. But the EU trying to steal our vac and casually invoking Article 16 has really left me aghast. I can't believe they are lashing out this way, I don't understand why.

If UK had not left EU, this could not have happened

Not in the same way perhaps, but then we'd have been stuck at the back of the queue for whatever pitiful amont of vaccines they'd got round to sourcing ... a classic case of "choose your poison" I guess

Macron is still willy waving about the efficacy of AZ but hopefully people in this country will see through that and it won’t slow down vaccine uptake

Considering how low French uptake of the vaccine's said to be, I'd say it's worth worrying about them too - especially in terms of future travel arrangements

Yes, the EU have done badly with the vaccine and triggering article 16 was a bad move. It is however a move that was rescinded immediately because member state Ireland said 'no' ... because member states can stand up to the rest of the EU and get what they want. As could we before we decided to leave.

I think Ireland deserved a heads up

I wonder what Biden will have to say about the EU threatening to break the Good Friday Agreement?

Merkel is nearly gone

Yes, the EU virtual signalling over the peace process was just a tactic to thwart Brexit and tie the UK to the single market. NI and ROI were simply pawns in a bigger game. Now the Irish Taoiseach may realise that the Irish government was played like a fiddle.

Reneging on the NI Protocol was reckless in the extreme. The EU, driven by panic and post-Brexit anger, has made an error of monumental proportions. It may have been swiftly rolled back, but it won't be forgotten how the EU treats so-called 'valued member states' such as the ROI and how easily it will override treaties if they get in its way (Article 16 was supposed to have been a last resort. For the EU to invoke it so carelessly has set a dangerous precedent). Even if the pro-EU and craven ROI government forgives and moves on, the rest of the world (surely including the US) will have noticed.

As for Merkel, for many years she has been a restraining and moderating influence on the EU. When she goes things could be very different.

I never understood the short-sightedness of people voting remain because the EU had brought in some good laws eg employment rights and so on. The point is that these could change in the future, and what agency have UK voters then? At least with our own government we can punish them by voting them out. That's the whole point of representative democracy.

In two weeks time, no one will remember this happened.

I think the vulnerable people waiting for a vaccine might.

I'm a European who was raised here & was a remainer not staunchly so but I can call out a fuck up for what it is.

Yanbu OP. I voted remain as I felt leaving was just too big of a risk. And obviously there will be many consequences, good and bad. But the multiple threads on here demanding to know ONE SINGLE GOOD THING about Brexit were tiresome and goady, and remainers on those threads always mocked anyone who talked about sovereignty and the ability to make decisions for ourselves, or who were critical about the undemocratic structure of the EU commission, etc etc. It seemed pretty academic to me and rather jingoistic and delusional in an increasingly globalised world. I believed all the arguments - that we had exemptions, that we could veto things and be more influential reforming things from the inside.

But you know what? It's not academic when there's a global public health emergency and 27 countries are hamstrung by the organisation that's meant to be protecting their interests. It's not solidarity when Germany are ordering extra vaccines on the side while supposedly signed up to the EU procurement model, when they blocked PPE from being exported to Italy last March when things were desperate there, when Macron pressurised the EU to invest heavily in the French vaccine which won't be available for months, when the EU demonstrate they don't really give a toss about the Good Friday Agreement and not having a hard border, when it suits them.

This pandemic is the single biggest crisis any of us has ever lived through, and the fact that we're so far ahead in vaccinating is only possible because we did leave. The EU has dropped the ball on one of the most vital issues we've ever faced and is now resorting to bullying tactics to try to distract from their own failure. Even with the Covax scheme, the UK have given far more generously (as we should, both morally and from a self-interested point of view).

I'm never going to see the EU the same way again. We have our faults as a country and our government have fucked up a lot during this period but they've also done amazingly on the vaccine, and at least we can get rid of them in the next election if that's what we decide is best.

I'm sure there will be difficulties and I'm not gung-ho about that, but I'm now very glad indeed that we've left because I don't think the EU is really the force for good it's billed as. I hated the way they dealt with Greece back when the financial crash happened so I already kind of knew what they were capable of, but this whole situation has highlighted that and I think it's turned me into a lifelong sceptic. What are they for? Peace in Europe, looking after their own? Doesn't look like they're fit for purpose.

@barretbonden

Why did we think for one minute that the EU would give a shiny shit about the UK after the way we have treated them and what we have said about them?

You mean choosing to leave?

Did we "make them do it"

It's not solidarity when Germany are ordering extra vaccines on the side while supposedly signed up to the EU procurement model, when they blocked PPE from being exported to Italy last March when things were desperate there

Yep solidarity

Me too OP. Me too.

YANBU. I was a remainer up until yesterday too. Selfish, bitter swines.

Guess what? The EU needs us more than we need them after all.

In two weeks time, no one will remember this happened

People will hold it against them for a decade or more. Irrespective that they have now backtracked.

In two weeks time, no one will remember this happened

Do you know what Im so pissed off by this flippancy. People will die because the EU fucked up.

Whilst I’m a lover of Europe & have many friends & family connections in Europe I can’t stand the EU powers. Nor can my European friends oddly enough.

Invoking Article 16 in a flash after years of careful consideration & planning was very clearly an emotional response to their own glaring failure to approve a vaccine in a timely fashion. A distasteful & conceited attempt to bully because they’re cornered & they know it.

It’s quite clear to everyone that this is exactly what it was, hence the fast backtrack & the united reactions of pretty much all Westminster & the Northern Irish assembly condemning it.

The current crisis has highlighted how painfully slow the bloc moves; and how unfit they are to actually take decisive, swift action. The power-hungry Angela Von Trap or whatever her name is - & her sneering cronies are furious that the UK has shown them up for the grabby bullies they are. Not only have they let their many citizens down, they’ve also showed incredible lack of compassion to the Irish who they turned into political pawns in their negotiations with the UK over Brexit.

They can all fuck right off. They’re frightened and so they should be. They never made this about the European people. It was always about securing themselves power. And it’s biting them on the arse. Good.

This is such a good article by the guardian and ironically the reason UK insisted on contract wording with AZ on ensuring first delivery to us was because they feared Trump interfering in supplies!

They now find it is actually the EU behaving in this Trump manner. U.K. contract was signed with first delivery and the EU contract only contains best efforts etc

Def worth a read - I wondered why guardian would print such a balanced article but there’s a nod to Blairite era enabling UK success on this.

Imagine how these Oxford researchers working so hard for not for profit vaccine to go to poor countries view the rich EU and their horse trading over price and delay in placing orders and now this tantrum from them. I know who look like the grown-ups in the room.

www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jan/29/we-had-to-go-it-alone-how-the-uk-got-ahead-in-the-covid-vaccine-race

*The leavers clinging to this one act as proof that voting to remove our FOM, put up trade barriers and leave this shower of shite govt in complete control of our environmental and food regulations and workers rights is just desperate and sad.

Yes, the EU have done badly with the vaccine and triggering article 16 was a bad move. It is however a move that was rescinded immediately because member state Ireland said 'no' ... because member states can stand up to the rest of the EU and get what they want. As could we before we decided to leave.

Us being out of the SM and the harm to our economy and our standing on the world stage is going to last a lot longer than covid.

In two weeks time, no one will remember this happened. We'll still have a shitty trade deal and poor long term prospects, though.*

I agree with this, maybe not 2 weeks but certainly in 2 months. This is just a blip and then the EU will go back to enjoying it's freedom of movement and free trade. The desperation of Brexiters clinging onto this as some kind of see it was all worth it is extremely short sighted but seeing how riled up they are getting has certainly kept me amused over the past 24hrs, if you can put some of that passion into keeping your economy afloat perhaps things won't turn out as dismally as is expected.

@Aloethere do you think the Europeans who desperately need a vaccine will move on or their loved ones if they die?

AT the risk of sounding like JRM, people won't know until quite a bit more time has gone by, and anyone expecting immediate benefits was being a bit ridiculous.
I thought nimble governance and near accountability were hugely important, so I voted leave, but I didn't expect the clear benefits of those to be so immediate, I just thought it would inevitably become clear sooner or later. It just happens to have been sooner. I'm not smug though - I have family in EU waiting for vaccines so it's far too close to home for any uncharitable response at all - but I'm relieved that the UK got it right and people persevered through all the name calling, even on these boards.

I feel we are like the fat kid with the keys to the tuck shop.

In two weeks time, no one will remember this happened

Personally I give people more credit than that, but even if some of the general public forget, investors and other nations' politicians certainly won't
Which is why rowing back on the Ireland idea won't help now they've so thoroughly revealed themselves

And yes, of course the pretended support for the border was merely a tactic to delay Brexit ... shame about the abuse directed at those who accurately forecast what could happen

Unfortunately OP you won’t get solidarity with your way of thinking on mumsnet. Some on here are so focused in their hatred of anything ‘brexiteer’, they will not give any rational thinking to what you’re saying. They’re in their own little echo chambers and hell would freeze before they would actually admit that the EU acted like desperate bullies in this situation.

@Snoringmutt
And then an even fatter kid shows up and says "I lost the keys to my tuck shop. Give me yours or I will piss in your sisters face"

There will always be diehard remainers who will never see any wrong in the EU no matter how bad they treat us or EU citizens ( not that anyone is taking any notice of them now ) but many people who voted remain will now be thanking all those who voted leave I'm sure. As these threads are proving.

In two weeks time, no one will remember this happened.

So all those people who look at the vaccine rollout numbers, with the UK at 12% and the EU currently at about 2.5% - you think they'll have caught up in two weeks and forgotten about it? You don't think all those Europeans scared to go out won't be looking at the UK vaccination rate and blaming the Commission for the fact that they are still in lockdown? The cuts from this will run extremely deep and will last for years - literally years. The consequences will be huge, the Commission know it and that's why they are running round like headless chickens and using desperate Trump like manoeuvres. They are not so stupid as to do it for no reason - they are doing it because they know the ramifications of their fuck up are huge. There is absolutely no way this will be over soon.

I thought nimble governance and near accountability were hugely important, so I voted leave

So did I, though I also recognise we have neither of those things

However at least we can work towards getting them in time, which with the EU would almost certainly have been impossible

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55865539

Haha remeber when people where saying the uk would be seen as a 3rd world country for wanting the ability to do this and the gov backed down.

EU goes ahead and does it without warning demands border control for Northern Ireland.

I don't thinktheeu views the Irish as eu citizens just the bit of Britain that stayed

@marbellamarc

In two weeks time, no one will remember this happened

Do you know what Im so pissed off by this flippancy. People will die because the EU fucked up.

Surely though had the Eu ordered far earlier, the amount of vaccine would still be same now? Just that we would have had less and them more?

The UK plants weren't up to speed in December and the EU ones have had production issues, all of that would have been the same as now.

the way to stop people dying is to vaccinate the most vulnerable across europe? (in the context that this is a eu/AZ/UK thead)