To think a confidential issue should be kept confidential?

[Nicknamegoeshere]

I'm dealing with an extremely emotional/sensitive issue at the moment which is very difficult for myself and my children.

Yesterday I contacted someone who I had been given as a helpful contact for people who find themselves in a similar situation.

I found him to be very blunt, which was OK in itself (although not very helpful when I'm so low), but he discussed the situation to a point and gave me his advice. I thanked him and ended the call.

Or so I thought. For whatever reason the call hadn't disconnected.

I then heard him saying to a woman: "Oh fuck. Do you think I shouldn't have said that?" He asked this question repeatedly. He then went on to discuss the details of the reason I had called.

AIBU to think this is not OK?

@Pillowcase123 It was a long conversation with no advice sought/given.

Is it just GPs that have to maintain confidentiality?

No. But you’ve been asked why you thought confidentiality was guaranteed and you haven’t said. So at the moment I am assuming it wasn’t. If I’m wrong, you’re the one with that information so 🤷🏻‍♀️

Without knowing his role we can't say whether he is bound by confidentiality. Also if she doesn't know who he is talking about how does that breach your confidentiality?

If it is regarding a highly complex legal case and you were asking for advice I would assume he was questioning whether he’d given you the right advice or should have advised you at all. So even if it was his wife there’s a high chance s/he would know about his area of work and, quite possibly that he’d been asked to advise on your case. Perhaps it was even more complicated that he’d anticipated and he needed to decompress and hence the need to swear.

As a long term HCP I can assure you we might often give advice by phone and then have a similar sweaty conversation with a nearby colleague. If working from home that’s going to be a family member. Doesn’t mean you’ve disclosed the names and details of that individual.

I would let this go and focus on your problems which sound very difficult.

Best wishes.

Yes but if you were not identifiable, there's no breach.

Unless he said "Mrs Jones, date of birth 12/12/70, of 123 100 Acre Wood has this situation going on" then my understanding is that there is no breach of confidentiality.

Moreso if you don't have a contract in place. If you're not paying for or somehow commissioning this person's services, then it is unlikely confidentiality would apply except in specific professions and the info shared would need to identify you not your situation, as above.

[quote Nicknamegoeshere]@KatherineJaneway He definitely wasn't asking for advice. Swearing etc.[/quote]
"Fuck do you think I shouldn't have said that?" sounds like asking for advice in relation to a potential client, although no need for the Fuck bit.

I'm sorry you're going through a tough time but I think you need to forget this.

It was an unfortunate mistake that the call didn't disconnect. It's lucky you didn't hear confidential case information about other people when you stayed on the line.

@Nicknamegoeshere Of course YANBU. And ignore anyone saying 'how ironic that you were eavesdropping on HIM!' You weren't. He just hadn't hung up from the phone call, and unfortunately for him, you heard him gossiping.

I don't know what the nature of all this is, but I can tell you of one example I know about that is similar.

A woman I know had been in trouble, (stolen from work, and been sacked.) Three years later, she had got her life back on track, paid her dues, (3 month suspended prison sentence, and made to pay back what she had stolen,) got a new job, and had moved on.

When she was in a certain shop (I won't name on here,) she was waiting to be served, in the queue of 10 or so people. A woman who was behind the counter of 5 or 6 staff, said just after she left, 'that woman there in black and red who Janet just served, got done not long ago for stealing from her workplace.' And continued to berate her for a minute or so... The other staff gasped, with an OMG look on their face(s.)

Long story short, a neighbour of this woman heard and saw it all, and reported the staff member to head office, and she was sacked.

Be careful when you're slagging someone off, because you never know who's listening.

Thank you all. I'm probably being oversensitive as I've suffered from DV for about 15 years now and the case concerns losing my children to my ex-husband for even more custody. It's hard to let my children go as a mum who has done nothing wrong. I'm feeling overwhelming bereavement for the children I feel I have lost.
It sort of left me feeling humiliated if that's a valid feeling?
Thank you all and I'll make sure I just check confidentiality is assured next time before I speak to anyone about the case.

@Nicknamegoeshere

I think that sounds best, OP. We’re all getting used to this new WFH situation and it does throw up confidentiality issues.

It depends.

A professional talking about a confidential issue with a fellow professional within the same team - allowed.

A professional talking about a confidential issue to a non-professional (e.g. their partner) in an abstract way and not disclosing confidential information - ok (e.g. I go home, and say to husband "I saw the most the awful situation at work today, an elderly woman with a broken arm by her carer, so sad")

A professional talking about a confidential issue to a non-professional and disclosing confidential information - not ok (e.g. I go home to my partner and say "Norma Smith at The Willows care home was attacked by Mavis Jones the senior carer, she broke her arm and now Mavis has been arrested).

Of course it's a valid feeling.
As it's such a highly emotional issue I'm guessing the person you spoke to just needed to vent/clarify/check they'd done the right thing.
As frustrating as that was to hear I don't think they meant any harm and isn't worth worrying about. I don't think they'll be shouting it from the rooftops.

I hope everything works out for you.

That sounds tough Op The law is so fucked up in regards to abusive partners being granted custody.

I understand you feeling humiliated. It must have felt awful to hear your case being discussed in such a sort of detached, flippant way. However, you weren't supposed to hear that conversation, it was an unfortunate error that you did.

I hope you have some RL support

But I don't think it's professional to be discussing my case (critically) with his wife.

And you are right. It is not.

@TheVanguardSix It would seem most people discuss cases with their partners. Is this a confidentiality breach?

I honestly believe they don't do it regularly at all. I would really hope not. That said, of course, it does happen. And it IS a breach. There's no grey area here. It's pretty cut and dry. If DH comes into the kitchen and says "Typhoid Mary (got this from another thread ) is a pain in my arse with her ongoing requests for Tramadol," that IS a confidentiality breach.
DH has discussed things with me, very vaguely and very seldom over the years (and always to do with a complaint against him- so, looking for honesty from me, the devil's advocate). Still, that IS a confidentiality breach. So it's certainly not something he makes a habit of in the least. I couldn't imagine him getting off the phone and blabbing to me about a patient over a coffee, for example. But yes, even DH has breached confidentiality, even if he hasn't taken it to the extreme.

Pillowcase is right OP it’s not a breach unless he identified you in some way. He didn’t, and (in the kindest way possible) you’re just one of many he deals with daily. Confidentiality means they can never link your case details to you, not that they can never discuss your case. I’m sorry you’re having such a horrible time and please seek a different service provider if you’re no longer comfortable here.

The woman stealing from work scenario given above is completely different.

Staff in a work place can be informed if staff member X has been dismissed on grounds of theft. She can't demand everyone signs a secrecy pact. That's an unfortunate consequence of stealing.

[quote Nicknamegoeshere]@AStudyinPink Is it just GPs that have to maintain confidentiality?[/quote]
I wouldn’t expect my GP to maintain absolute confidentiality, I would expect the other doctors, nursing and even admin staff to have access to my medical records.

I discuss work with my partner, as sometimes it's good to get an opiinion from outside the sector. However I don't do names of students, just scenarios.

@Aprilx Absolutely. But would you be OK with his/her partner knowing info about you?

you can't tell over the phone if someone is or isn't a colleague - even if it were his wife perhaps they work together if he is self employed for e,g. The only way you will know is if you phone him back and discuss it.

@Nicknamegoeshere

Thank you all. I'm probably being oversensitive as I've suffered from DV for about 15 years now and the case concerns losing my children to my ex-husband for even more custody. It's hard to let my children go as a mum who has done nothing wrong. I'm feeling overwhelming bereavement for the children I feel I have lost. It sort of left me feeling humiliated if that's a valid feeling? Thank you all and I'll make sure I just check confidentiality is assured next time before I speak to anyone about the case.

It sounds like it was possibly a free consultation with a solicitor, in which case yes confidentiality should be maintained however it sounds like as your case was sensitive in nature with the DV aspect, he possibly felt after ending the call he said the wrong (possibly insensitive thing)? And was seeking advice from female colleague/wife etc rather than discussing your specific case and identifying details if that makes sense? Must be going through hell OP it will get better

@TheVanguardSix I wish your husband was my GP. He sounds fab

@Nicknamegoeshere but they don’t know it’s about you. They don’t know you, your name, your identifiers, only your case details which will be one of hundreds of theirs.

@fuckrightoff Aw thanks. No it will only get worse if more custody awarded. But I'm getting counselling which will hopefully help me accept that I'm going to be abused for life (as are my children) and help me find strategies for dealing with this.

It is why it is btter people use professionals eg solicitors and barristers and psychiatrists (doctors) and clinical psychologists rather than just people calling themselves "therapist" are subject to very strict professional rules, take exams in them even and lose their career if they breach confidence. Others are not always subject to anything like that. That then leaves you just with the issue of whether it was made clear something was confidential and separately if there has been a breach of data protection law or not.