AIBU to think women should not be banned from Social media for asking the question - Thread 2

[Thewithesarehere]

Many women have been suspended from sm for asking the question:
“Do you believe that male sexed people should be allowed access to changing rooms and showers for female sexed people and teenagers?”
Seems like a perfectly reasonable question which we should be allowed to ask.

Let’s vote with our AIBU.

@Whatwouldscullydo

life

Theres a dr on your tube who told parents that babies/toddlers who threw clips out of their hair or unpopped their baby grows were making a dress amd were sending a non verbal gender message. My dds always took.theor clothes off. Toddlers like to run around in a nappy and to fiddle with poppers etc its normal behaviour.

When you look at stereotypically girly clothes , many have frills or lace etc and are incredibly impractical/itchy/scratchy etc I have a dd with eczema leggings and joggers were a go to fir this reason.

Sensory issues would make so much sense but instead of thinking they just want to be comfortable its a sign they are realky a boy.

A large number of girls in particular nut also the boys turning up at the clinics were actually autistic.

I have no idea how I missed this earlier.

So am I reading this right, they are using typically autistic traits (sensory) issues as evidence of girls being born in the wrong gender.

That's awful.

I do know that a large number of autistic girls identify as trans. I avoid the posts about it in the Facebook autism groups that i belong too as I genuinely believe that the parents are not to blame for this. Autistic children often have comorbid mental health problems. As a parent you'd do anything to stop them hurting. They are being let down by medical staff if they are saying this is a gender issue when it's most likely sensory. What are parents supposed to think if actual doctors are saying this stuff.

This is just awful. I thought referring to autistic girls as autistic people with cervixes was bad. This is beyond the pale.

I need more evidence that this happened and then I most definitely will be writing letters.

And who's telling these girls what traits a girl should have and that they aren't making the grade as a girl so must be a boy?

Hideous.

@lifeturnsonadime

And who's telling these girls what traits a girl should have and that they aren't making the grade as a girl so must be a boy?

Hideous.

It is being taught in schools.

Schools are also being told to assist children with SN in accessing things like clothing etc

And that they shoukd change the names and sex markers on their records and this can be done without parental knowledge

Oh my god, thank goodness my daughter is not at school.

This is really really upsetting.

This also makes for an interesting read, though the P.M do use the revolting term "child pornography",

thepostmillennial.com/sex-offender-who-identifies-as-young-girl-reveals-just-how-dangerous-self-id-is

One organisation even has a live chat feature with a "get me out of here " button where staff will discuss binders with young girls...

Regarding the number of autistic children referred to the Tavistock Gender Identity clinic, from the High Court's recent judicial review judgment in the Keira Bell case, page 8, para. 33-35:

www.judiciary.uk/judgments/r-on-the-application-of-quincy-bell-and-a-v-tavistock-and-portman-nhs-trust-and-others/

Schools are also advised to assist girls with breast binders. Again, without parents' knowledge.

Those last two articles are shocking.

Maud I was aware of the numbers of autistic girls I just wasn't quite aware of how it was happening until now.

But if schools and doctors are encouraging this by telling children and their parents that what are in essence sensory issues are evidence of non gender conformity what hope do those girls have.

This could really really be my daughter.

Feel sick to my stomach that simply because of an outward display of autistic traits, girls in this country have been given puberty blockers that could result in them being infertile.

Unfortunately discussion is deemed bigoted and disableist because it Denys autistic kids bodily autonomy and treats them as if they are too stupid to know anything

Its also believed by sone that transition would cure add and autism

When you really think it through it is very sinister.

Adhd

I sometimes wish we had a 'like/dislike' button on these important (fwr) threads and that our usernames were displayed alongside our ticks .
I guess this facility would be abused at times by trolls and those posters aiming to be popular but I would find it ...informative .

@LolaButt

I recently read a new policy at work in relation to trans employees. It said that at whatever stage of transition people are at, they can use whichever bathroom they choose.

That was it. No consultation with all employees. Just a sweeping, here you go this is how it is. No regard for how a woman who may have experienced sexual violence may feel about a man in the toilet with her, as an example.

My reaction startled myself actually. Because I so strongly felt that it was wrong that female employees were not given a voice on the issue.

I can’t speak up on this issue at work, because my employers are holding the image of the only visible trans person in the company up on the internal intranet, LinkedIn, media etc as a sort of token placard to show that they’re inclusive.

The image is like a shield against the views of women. Because you can’t argue against the guy in heels and a skirt, paired with a suit jacket and tie can you?! Because then you’re transphobic rather than pissed off that as a woman your voice wasn’t regarded highly enough to be invited to the conversation. But the guy in the skirt gets to control the narrative.

Can you make a mock-up copy with a pic of anonymous women replacing the pic of the guy, and changing it to say the company is inclusive by being excluding women?..... on the sly obviously and be careful.

Good luck working there. I hope you and your colleagues remain safe with dignity.

@Whatwouldscullydo

Unfortunately discussion is deemed bigoted and disableist because it Denys autistic kids bodily autonomy and treats them as if they are too stupid to know anything

nothing quite denies autistic girls bodily autonomy quite like puberty blockers and breast binders though does it?

And it's telling them that their issues should be hidden, that they are a result of being 'born wrong'.

@Idratherberude

*No... read what I wrote.
A male who has had gender reassignment and is now a transwoman would be treated fairly compared to any other male.

I fail to see what you are finding so difficult to grasp @SweetPetrichor.*

———

Sorry it’s not in the same thread but I genuinely don’t understand how you’re getting this confused. There is no reason to have legislation protecting a trans woman with equality equal to a male. She had that...what she needs is equality equal to a woman. That is the purpose of the act.

Here’s an example borrowed from another source (equalityhumanrights.com) which is it self discussion what constitutes indirect discrimination but proves my point that you are protecting a trans woman equal to any other woman:

^”Indirect discrimination happens when an organisation has a particular policy or way of working that puts transsexual people at a disadvantage.

Sometimes indirect gender assignment discrimination can be permitted if the organisation or employer is able to show that there is a good reason for the discrimination. This is known as objective justification. For example:

• a local health authority decides that it will not fund breast implants. As a result the health authority refuses to provide this treatment for a woman undergoing gender reassignment even though she considers it essential to make her look more feminine. The same policy is applied to all women but puts transsexuals at a greater disadvantage. The health authority may be able to justify its policy if it can prove that it has legitimate reasons.”^

Does that help? It’s about protecting trans gender people with regard to their correct gender, not their gender as assigned at birth.

Well quite.

Its heart breaking

On fwr we have brainstormed repeatedly about possible underlying causes. And Alternate care plans etc.

All we really want is evidenced based care with follow up, psychological assessment etc

I dont know who wouldn't want to make sure trans people received the best possible care.

But we are still bigots and trabsphobes fir wanting this.

The Tavistock whistle blowers have cited autism and homophobia and abuse and in one case the suspected the dad was a paedophile.

There have been concerns a long time

Feel sick to my stomach that simply because of an outward display of autistic traits, girls in this country have been given puberty blockers that could result in them being infertile.

It starts to look like eugenics. What I find particularly upsetting is that the people pushing this the most are all adults (both trans and not trans) who have been through a natural puberty and all the benefits that entails of brain maturity, sexual pleasure, healthy skeleton, fertility etc. I can't believe they are pushing for something so extreme to happen to people who are not them, to children.

There is woeful psychological support for autistic people. Once diagnosed parents are told to get on with it.

I am lucky that my daughter has access to a fantastic `NHS occupational therapist. As I understand it, this is a postcode lottery.

But on the body autonomy point. Why not just let them wear what they want without insisting that wearing the most comfortable clothes rather than gendered ones mean that someone has been born wrong.

My daughter wears what she wants.

@BrassicaRabbit

Feel sick to my stomach that simply because of an outward display of autistic traits, girls in this country have been given puberty blockers that could result in them being infertile.

It starts to look like eugenics. What I find particularly upsetting is that the people pushing this the most are all adults (both trans and not trans) who have been through a natural puberty and all the benefits that entails of brain maturity, sexual pleasure, healthy skeleton, fertility etc. I can't believe they are pushing for something so extreme to happen to people who are not them, to children.

It doesn't fit either with self ID or with the notion that the body doesn't have to represent the gender of a person.

Why are they treating children differently to adults who don't have to take any steps to physically transition to be accepted as the opposite gender to their biological sex?

This my worry.
An adult can self id as the opposite sex and must be accepted as such even if they have no medical or surgical intervention at all.
But it is vitally important that children are hurried along a pathway of puberty blockers, breast binders, mutilating surgery and cross sex hormones. Denying them this amounts to cruelty and abuse on the part of their parents.
Baffling.