to think if they vaccinate teachers- they should also do shop and other key worker too?

[Pat123dev]

I understand teachers want vaccination, who wouldn't want it. But why are other key workers not being considered too? Shop workers, police force many others, must see 100s if not 1000s of people a day?
Or is that why they're not vaccinating them yet, because they're all exposed more than those at home and it's too big a group so best to stick vulnerable for the time being?

Also, not remotely interested in being pushed ahead for a vaccine, as it wouldn't help to protect the wider community, which is the only reason for most kids being at home at the moment. Also think it would be wrong for relatively healthy me to jump ahead of someone who might get really ill.

If anyone is to be prioritised beyond the vulnerable it should be people in the higher risk, lower paid jobs who can't do a portion of their work from home and won't get decent sick pay.

I'm not interested in the stats to argue teachers are more deserving, but you can't gauge risk really umless you put infection rates and death rates together. That goes for any job. If it had been 250 education staff who caught it, the roughly 200 who died (they left TAs and eyfs out of the education figures) would suggest a lower risk of catching the virus but a worse outcome if infected than most. If 20, 000 caught it, and 200 died, then that's roughly the same risk of death as everyone else. Looking at mortality in isolation tells us very little.

I am only interested in the figures so that I can work out who has been telling the fewest lies though, not to argue that teachers should jump the vaccination queue.

In some parts of the US, it's care homes, medical and emergency, then 70ish+, then education & childcare, then food & agriculture (including supermarkets). So schools & nurseries before ECV and before other age groups. It's designed to prioritise the economy.

Not saying it's right, just a different priority system.

@Reenskar it isn't to keep teachers working on site, it was being proposed in order to allow schools to fully reopen sooner.

However, reopening sooner would be a horrendous idea at the moment. The UK is, certainly in some areas, in a mess. The issue wouldn't be that a teacher might catch Covid and have to isolate. It would be that infected kids (and there would still be infected kids) would continue to spread it within schools, and to the wider community, maybe passing it to someone who then ended up in hospital, to find that they were rationing oxygen. Or had run out of intensive care beds. Or both.

Everybody who is more at risk absolutely needs vaccinating before teachers, so that if there is another spike when schools go back, it doesn't result in the carnage we have just seen. Ideally, it would be good if teachers could be vaccinated before schools reopen, yes. But in reality that would either see them universally closed for longer, or with nationally staggered opening, thereby increasing the already massive inequalities within education.

Btw OP is in a clinically vulnerable group due to their age. They are not claiming precedence because of a job. It's not unreasonable for someone who has been asked to behave as though clinically vulnerable to expect a vaccination before someone who has not.

Cv teachers and teachers over 50 are in priority groups along with others at similar risk.
It was really disappointing to see this move from Labour. It’s headline grabbing and will appeal to some but is based on a misunderstanding of the issues with schools. They are shut because of community spread.
I listened to Lisa Nancy this morning. She was asked if this was not just pushing the more vulnerable down the queue. She insisted it was not and we ‘ have the capacity ‘. Kate Green said similar. Political double speak at its finest. Yes, it clearly is pushing the more vulnerable down the queue. It’s disappointing as up until this point I think Keir Starmer has avoided this empty and damaging point scoring approach.

Nannies please. No way of distancing, can''t wear any PPE.

@Darklylookingdeeply

Nannies please. No way of distancing, can''t wear any PPE.

What percentage of working nannies are CEV ?

@Darklylookingdeeply

Nannies please. No way of distancing, can''t wear any PPE.

And how many children are nannies in contact with a day? Anything like the 150 that a secondary school teacher would see?

Is the air around you in the child's home the kind of covid soup that a classroom would be?

I'm not discounting the fact that you're not masked and might feel uncomfortable. But the tone of your post reads somewhat snippily and I don't quite understand why, if you're comparing yourself to teachers/nursery staff/police etc. You have much more control over your environment than any of those do.

I agree teachers are not so much at risk according to the new data.
Shop workers actually work close with each other day in day out and it sometimes cannot be helped. Then all the customers around them all day long

"Shop workers actually work close with eachother" em, like a nursery or reception teacher? Or a secondary one with 100 teens a day? Perhaps I am misreading your post?

Teachers in special school,s should be treated the same as care workers ,these teachers are caring for very vulnerable children and often have give personal care

Teachers and all staff in special school,s*

Supermarket workers have thousands of. People around them each day.

Of course teachers need to be vaccinated. Teachers will be stuck in a small room with 30+ children, many of whom could easily be asymptomatic, all day long, with many classrooms with no windows/ventilation, and nobody wearing masks. Nursery workers should obviously also be prioritised though.
However, I do understand that this would mean that vaccinations would be taken away from other vulnerable groups so I guess the alternative is to continue remote teaching for longer 🤷🏼‍♀️

As for those saying it's the same for shop staff, no it isn't. I'm not saying it's great for shop staff either, and I certainly wouldn't want to be working in a shop during this either, but at least everyone wears masks (or are supposed to), keeps their distance and there are screens up. Plus interaction is fleeting and in many shops, eg supermarkets, they are much larger spaces than a tiny box classroom. Plus less chance of a room full of asymptomatic kids.

I know there is a claim that teachers are at no more risk than any other sector but I absolutely do not believe that. Do these people even know what a classroom is like? If masks and distancing are so important, why don't they matter at all in a classroom?

My sister in law's colleague caught Covid in school and bought it back to her husband who died of it (just before Christmas). They were going literally nowhere else.

The ONLY fair way to do this is to vaccinate those people most likely to die first. If teachers are prioritised over any group more likely to die then their will be unnecessary deaths.

Going down the age groups at the moment seems to be most fair. But I reckon teachers will cause a political stink and will get priority over others more at risk and more people will die.

I agree teachers in special schools defiantly should be priority in getting the vaccine with care assistants . Im a care assistant and have worked up very close and personal with covid residents.

Genuine question - why are over 70s more likely to die of Covid? I know they're more likely to die if they actually catch it, but surely their chances of catching it are, for most, minimal because they're in lockdown and the majority don't have jobs and therefore don't need to go to work? My father in law had his vaccination earlier this week and was saying he wishes he could give it to someone else instead as he doesn't have to go anywhere and is literally just staying in his house and garden, and getting food deliveries, whereas other people have no choice but to mix with people for their jobs. I obviously am very glad he's had the vaccination, but he has a point - he's surely very very unlikely to catch it if he's not actually having to go anywhere..? Probably a controversial opinion but it's more of a question. Are over 70s really more likely to die of Covid than, for example, a keyworker who is working face to face with the public every day?

@surreygirl1987

Genuine question - why are over 70s more likely to die of Covid? I know they're more likely to die if they actually catch it, but surely their chances of catching it are, for most, minimal because they're in lockdown and the majority don't have jobs and therefore don't need to go to work? My father in law had his vaccination earlier this week and was saying he wishes he could give it to someone else instead as he doesn't have to go anywhere and is literally just staying in his house and garden, and getting food deliveries, whereas other people have no choice but to mix with people for their jobs. I obviously am very glad he's had the vaccination, but he has a point - he's surely very very unlikely to catch it if he's not actually having to go anywhere..? Probably a controversial opinion but it's more of a question. Are over 70s really more likely to die of Covid than, for example, a keyworker who is working face to face with the public every day?

The 70+ 80+ groups had by far the lowest number of cases in my LA for the last few weeks. And it isn't vaccination because our hub only started vaccinating last week.

Despite MNers going on about old people living recklessly, they really haven't been. Most are scared and staying home.

However, yes they are more likely to die. And far less likely to get anywhere near ICU. So of course they're being cautious. I think it's time they were able to leave their homes after all this time. So yes, I think they should be vaccinated first. They've earned it, and it will free hospital beds.

I don’t disagree that some professions are at greater risk and there’s definitely an argument for prioritising this way. But the thing is, surely sorting people into groups such as bus drivers, shop workers, teachers, police etc etc, contacting them and working through each list would be very time consuming and a logistical nightmare?

Just seems that this would slow things down massively. After the most vulnerable groups (from age/ CEV), it probably makes most sense to just work down through the ages in blocks, so GP surgeries can just contact all ages 55-60, then 50-55 etc etc and hopefully move through the groups quickly.

There will be exceptions but I guess we have to go via the guidelines that age/underlying health problems are the biggest risk factor. Any people working in high risk (in terms of exposure) jobs will automatically be included in the relevant priority group accordingly.

so many comments on this post are ignorant and bored line uneducated, teachers should absolutely be a priority they see various amounts of young people every day (yes it still spreads through young people) of which live with adults, interact with adults and each other. Adults should have the common sense to social distance whereas children and teenagers cant comprehend this. If the government are going to put teachers in vulnerable situations (especially if they themselves have vulnerable family members) then they should absolutely be priority. People need to remember 1 in 6 people in the Uk are already on the priority list for having a moderate to severe health condition which is a significant amount to get through. And unfortunately many shop workers seem to be incapable of protecting themselves, through wearing masks incorrectly or not at all.

I’m a teacher and I personally think vaccinating teachers is a largely political move and has nothing to do with wanting to protect us. I don’t think this government cares much about protecting people in any public-facing profession. By vaccinating teachers they can make themselves look good and rush children back to school but it doesn’t stop children passing it to each other and taking it out into the community. I do think keyworkers should have some form of priority but I don’t think teachers necessarily need it before police officers, shop workers etc. I think the issue of safety in schools is a huge one and there’s loads to do. Vaccinating teachers is only one of those actions. Most of my colleagues feel the same so I’m not sure where the idea of teachers making a fuss and threatening to strike comes from (considering the majority of us have been at school mixing with children throughout the entire pandemic!!!) unless you’ve been reading tabloid journalism...

There is an interesting question to ask about risk however! Is it more risky to see 100s of different people each day, but the majority wear masks and can socially distance (or at least be asked to socially distance) or to mix with the same 30+ every day when those people climb on your lap / sneeze on your face / lick the door handles etc. I don’t know the answer but it’s interesting! I do think secondary colleagues are at greater risk than we are in Primary just because they mix with more children than we do. If teachers are vaccinated I hope they get it before us in Primary.

I’m a teacher and would like to see vaccination for all key workers so let’s stop trying to be so divisive. I’m clinically vulnerable as is my husband so will be vaccinated anyway but possibly not before returning to a classroom of 30 people where the Government expects me to teach without PPE. The ONS data is being challenged because it is based on a data from March when schools were shut to the majority of people and data for older educators was actually excluded from the totals. But in any case, it’s not a competition, all key workers need to be made as safe as possible in their roles.

So much for 'Schools must be opened, whatever the cost'.

Some people on here change their tune every time they think that teachers might actually get some proactive measures to keep schools open.

Local authorities and nhs trusts are taking matters into their own hands regarding vaccinating staff in some sen schools (not all.) Which is right as the level of care given in some is effectively medical.

Police should definitely get it first. They are first responders and often on the scene of accidents before any paramedics and are getting close to people. Then they have to arrest people, how do they do that from two meters? I'm not saying teachers shouldn't get it but we are just about coping with home learning, we won't cope without the police and can't afford to have them off work either with Covid or isolating. I'm a retail worker and not particularly bothered about getting mine, we've coped for nearly a year so I'll wait my turn.