to think if they vaccinate teachers- they should also do shop and other key worker too?

[Pat123dev]

I understand teachers want vaccination, who wouldn't want it. But why are other key workers not being considered too? Shop workers, police force many others, must see 100s if not 1000s of people a day?
Or is that why they're not vaccinating them yet, because they're all exposed more than those at home and it's too big a group so best to stick vulnerable for the time being?

Freddiefox Bluewavescrashing
chools are not closed. I had 23 people in my classroom today.How many sat on your lap?

None. However, being 5 and 6 years old, 2 coughed directly in my face. Another licked the table. I helped about 6 of them zip up their coats, just in front of their faces. One wanted to hold my hand as she hasn't seen her mum (an ICU nurse) for 3 weeks as she's been on nights. I breathed the same air as them all for 6 hours. Is that enough exposure for you?

Not this again. Shop workers and police are not stuck in small rooms with 34 people every day. If one of those people get covid then EVERYONE in the class has to self isolate. It is to stop transmission, not because teachers are special confused. It is impossible for teachers to maintain any sort of social distance. Our classrooms were designed to hold 30% less children than they actually do. You try socially distancing in that situation.

^^
I also agree with this.

@Freddiefox

There are significantly greater numbers of children aged 5-16 than there are 0-4 - just in terms of the number of employees that would be able to work once their children were back in school, I think it makes sense to look at the group that will have the greatest effect firs

However, if you are using the argument of keyworkers being able to work and schools enabling this, i would argue 11 pluses are at home and can continue home schooling. Vaccinate the teachers in primary schools, along with nursery staff and out of school Wrap around carers this enables all the parents of children who require childcare to work.
If enabling keyworkers to work is the aim, this is a fair solution.

Leave senior schools staff until after.

How will vaccinating school staff stop school bubbles bursting? and keep child care in place for keyworkers?

Although I don’t think it’s a bad idea to start with primary school staff.

I also think teachers should be allowed to wear face shields in class though - which protect the wearer - rather than masks which don’t.

@Bluewavescrashing

*Freddiefox Bluewavescrashing chools are not closed. I had 23 people in my classroom today.How many sat on your lap?*

None. However, being 5 and 6 years old, 2 coughed directly in my face. Another licked the table. I helped about 6 of them zip up their coats, just in front of their faces. One wanted to hold my hand as she hasn't seen her mum (an ICU nurse) for 3 weeks as she's been on nights. I breathed the same air as them all for 6 hours. Is that enough exposure for you?

Mo more exposure than me, except I’ve cuddles crying children, given first aid and changed nappies, helped wash hands, potty trained children. Walked them over to their parents because they are too young to be sent across a playground. So no I don’t think teachers should get the vaccine before early years.

Face shields are useless

I don't think teachers should get the vaccine before early years staff either. I never said that.

Tes, face shield are useless. I'd there are clouds I'd virus in my classroom I will breathe it in.

In

How will vaccinating school staff stop school bubbles bursting? and keep child care in place for keyworkers?

It won’t, my reply was to a poster stating that teachers should get the vaccines first because they provide a childcare service. My argument is, no more than nurseries.

I’ve also said I think the police should be the first key working groups. But if teachers are shouting for the vaccine on the grounds of exposure. I will shop for my staff to get it too.

Risk wise, by the way, the DFE published sickness absence statistics for teachers which suggest an average rate of infection in the profession that is above wider community rates, psrticularly in secondary. However, there's nothing currently on ONS.

If enabling keyworkers to work is the aim then yes, non NHS keyworkers should be prioritised in order of who is most necessary. Nursery staff and primary and special school teachers should be first in the education sector tbh as it's the younger kids and those with disabilities who will require more care.

I just don't agree with vaccinating all teachers during the half term and before all the vulnerable are protected, to get schools back fully open sooner.
And...I cannot wait to be back, it's horrible working like this.

@Ohthatwaymadnesslies

Does anyone feel like we're falling into the trap of turning on each other rather than looking at the bigger picture? Perhaps to distract us all from the ineptitude of our policy makers?

Absolutely, and this very thread confirms it. Arguing over who has it worst and who is most hard done by.

I hope to get mine as soon as possible in the vague hope that it allows me to do some semblance of my job that has been truly lacking for the past almost 12 months. It's rubbish that I can't and people have been negatively affected, but that is weighed up against me potentially passing something on to a very vulnerable member of society. I desperately want to do my job to its fullest, but I'll have to wait I guess.

I think it's just an awful situation for everyone and people are looking for any way out of it. I said to XH tonight, 'I recognise that in terms of everyone who is going through this, I am bloody fortunate. I still have a job. I still get to work every day. I am unlikely to get very ill if I do catch Covid. My mental health is still in tatters though which leads me to wonder, how much worse is everyone else's...'

Freddiefox Righto, i personally think those who are most at risk of dying or needing hospital admission should be vaccinated first. After all most children are not currently attending school to protect the NHS and save lives. We're not seeing our extended family and friends for the same reason. To move away from the original list will mean those most at risk of dying will be placed at a higher risk for longer.

Teachers and TAs are the only employees I know of who have to share a room with up to 30 others who are not wearing masks. It's not even about the teachers not being able to wear masks, it's about the fact that NONE of the pupils do. Consequently, the air in the room is potentially Covid soup.

How many non-teaching MNers would be prepared to go into a room with 30 unmasked people and stay there for 6 hours a day, every weekday? And they might not be able to wear a mask themselves either.
I wouldn't. I was supposed to wait in a waiting room for an hour with eight other people (masked) the other day, and I ended up standing in a corridor because I felt so unsafe.

"Risk wise, by the way, the DFE published sickness absence statistics for teachers which suggest an average rate of infection in the profession that is above wider community rates, psrticularly in secondary. However, there's nothing currently on ONS."

We've looked at this in our school and Autumn term absences this year are way down on last year. So the protections in place must be working for other bugs too?

Large school of 200 staff btw, so fairly statistically significant

@McFarts

Freddiefox Righto, i personally think those who are most at risk of dying or needing hospital admission should be vaccinated first. After all most children are not currently attending school to protect the NHS and save lives. We're not seeing our extended family and friends for the same reason. To move away from the original list will mean those most at risk of dying will be placed at a higher risk for longer.

@McFarts I wasn’t arguing for keyworkers to jump the queue over the old, vulnerable, ill, carers or the NHS. I thought this was a discussion on what happens after phase one is completed.

From the Downing Street briefing just now, it seems that key workers who are exposed to other adults, ie shop workers, emergency services, are more at risk than teachers!

Sen staff are highly exposed to other adults. Very close working. We work in teams and lots of outside agencies.

Given sen schools are fully open, staff should definitely be vaccinated sooner than later.

And in terms of "vectors" children attend Sen schools via private transport, mainly taxis who also run their other jobs as normal during the day. And they all have an escort too.

We've had cases in school via taxis, where a driver or escort tested positive and transmitted to the child.

I'm very suspicious of the claims that teachers are at no more risk than other professions, as I imagine those statistics have been calculated over the period March -Jan, when schools were only fully open to all pupils and teachers from Aug/Sept-Dec. I'd like to know in particular the rates of teacher illness/death in November and December compared to other professions as that would give a much more accurate picture.

Government twist the data on teacher deaths and illness from covid, usually citing data from lockdown 1 where very small groups of children were in school, most teaching took place outside in lovely weather etc. Schools are not safe

@TrashedWarrior

From the Downing Street briefing just now, it seems that key workers who are exposed to other adults, ie shop workers, emergency services, are more at risk than teachers!

Sen staff are highly exposed to other adults. Very close working. We work in teams and lots of outside agencies.

Given sen schools are fully open, staff should definitely be vaccinated sooner than later.

None of the SEN schools in my LA are fully open, my sons SEN school have about 38% in. The children who's parents arnt critical workers or not considered vulnerable (as in social services involvement) have been offered 2 days a week.

They should all have it.

Both of my Grandma's have had the vaccine. They can sheild and keep safe far more easily than a keyworker.

I know this isn't the case for all but my Grandma's are exposed far far less than a teacher or supermarket worker.

I'm a 60 year old supermarket worker. I work out on the shop floor working amongst the public picking online orders it's only those on checkouts who are behind screens. If you think teachers work in smaller rooms than us then you obviously haven't seen the small airless rooms where the picked boxes get stacked prior to delivery or spent time in a walk in chiller, the virus loves cold. Some of my colleagues have contracted the virus and there always seems to be someone off due to isolating at the moment. Statistics show that shop workers are more risk than a teacher so why should I have to wait for my jab whilst a teacher half my age gets one before me.