to think if they vaccinate teachers- they should also do shop and other key worker too?

[Pat123dev]

I understand teachers want vaccination, who wouldn't want it. But why are other key workers not being considered too? Shop workers, police force many others, must see 100s if not 1000s of people a day?
Or is that why they're not vaccinating them yet, because they're all exposed more than those at home and it's too big a group so best to stick vulnerable for the time being?

@Downton57

I'm very suspicious of the claims that teachers are at no more risk than other professions, as I imagine those statistics have been calculated over the period March -Jan, when schools were only fully open to all pupils and teachers from Aug/Sept-Dec. I'd like to know in particular the rates of teacher illness/death in November and December compared to other professions as that would give a much more accurate picture.

Agreed totally, see i had assumed that when the teacher union encouraged their members to exercise section 44 that their decision must have been based on evidence.

Teachers and police should be vaccinated.
Shop workers are not up close and personal or stuck in a small room with 30 little people who cough and snot without thinking.
Everyone wanting schools open but expecting teachers not to be vaccinated beforehand.

The purpose in vaccinating teachers would surely be so that schools do not suffer further disruption due to staff sickness.

@CheeseCakeSunflowers

I'm a 60 year old supermarket worker. I work out on the shop floor working amongst the public picking online orders it's only those on checkouts who are behind screens. If you think teachers work in smaller rooms than us then you obviously haven't seen the small airless rooms where the picked boxes get stacked prior to delivery or spent time in a walk in chiller, the virus loves cold. Some of my colleagues have contracted the virus and there always seems to be someone off due to isolating at the moment. Statistics show that shop workers are more risk than a teacher so why should I have to wait for my jab whilst a teacher half my age gets one before me.

My Dad is in his 60s and works in an essential shop and he has said the exact same. Plus as well as what you have said here, you also cannot stop bloody customers getting in your face! because whilst the fast majority of people do socially distance far to many really dont!

I think they need to look at the statistics for each group of frontline keyworks, about the number of cases. I can't remember the details but there was a piece on the news about the number of cases and deaths within the bus driving community in London (it was the London news so not being London centric). It was shocking figures and I real felt like they should be further up the list. The driver they were talking to looked terrified and mentioned he had lost multiple colleagues.

I don't think 'teachers' as a group should get it, different teachers are in very different situations. EYFS, inc nurseries, pre schools, KS1 primary are in a much more vulnerable position - much less contact with students the further up the age groups you go. SEN no way you can remove contact.

I am a secondary teacher, I can and do keep my distance, my room is not great for ventilation, but I am only in it for an hour with each group. My LSA's are far more at risk as they are sat with the students I can stand away from them at the front. I also tell them to keep their distance.

Its a really hard call to make - but the bus driver really got to me and made me think.

@lavenderlou

The purpose in vaccinating teachers would surely be so that schools do not suffer further disruption due to staff sickness.

2-3 people being vaccinated in a class of 30 plus, will not stop bubbles bursting, education will still be disrupted.

I hate all this pitting groups against others. I'm a teacher. I'll go back to work without th vaccine. If they tell me to get it I'll do what I'm told. I'm not clamouring or asking for it. I know that police, nursery workers etc are all in the same boat and I imagine (and hope) the scientists have some sort of strategy behind it and it's not just political so they look like they are doing something to get schools back. Thr cynic in me thinks it is though.

2-3 people being vaccinated in a class of 30 plus, will not stop bubbles bursting, education will still be disrupted.

No, it likely won't, but it will stop prolonged sickness periods if staff are diagnosed with Covid. 5 teachers and TAs out of a total of 20 in my school have had Covid in the past 3 months. One was hospitalised and was out for 2 months completely, returned only on a part-time basis. Two are still out sick, the others were out for 2 weeks sick and needed to return part-time only for another two weeks. There is no money in schools for supply teachers and when we were understaffed before because of Covid-sickness, some classes had to close.

Men in this roles over 50 (age may be wrong) are most at risk, so men first.

@Nopreservatives over the 200,000 secondary teachers under the dfe, roughly 1% were off on average, nationally, for each week over the entirety of last term - that's an infection rate of 1000 in every 100,000, at a time when the area I work in was at 500. I want to see it on an area by area basis as obviously there will be lots below that average - would be interesting to see where was higher. Covid measures have been shown, by the way, to have driven down normal seasonal infections.

Sorry *potentially an infection rate.

I want to see the ONS figures though. They've been published up to October but not thereafter yet.

@trashedwarrior, cab drivers are some of the most at risk.

@Cheesecakesunflowers you shouldn't.

[quote whydobirds]@trashedwarrior, cab drivers are some of the most at risk.[/quote]
The problem is that it's difficult to tease out whether it's their job or their environment that's the issue.

In the each of three towns within a ten-mile radius of me, taxi drivers are at three different levels of risk.
a) They tend to be BAME, and we know that it's a high risk group due to the prevalence of diabetes and high blood pressure in that group
b) They tend to belong to cultures that have multi-generational, high-density family homes, and
c) yes, they have strangers in their cars.

Picking out which is the most significant risk to them is tricky. But I suspect a) and b) have the greater influence, if their passengers are masked and in the back seat/behind a plexiglass screen

And d) in a category that will really suffer financially if unable to earn.

Plexiglass screens have only become a thing in cabs down here since the beginning of this lockdown, however. I had to get a cab a few weeks back and he had improvised a screen from cling film...

@McFarts that must be an LA decision.

Government guidance was to be open.

Though in areas where rates are high that would be near impossible so it's likely they're protecting the running of the school as much as possible.

It’s just that schools are super spreaders isn’t it?

@McFarts my union area rep was clear in everything he has said that section 44 should not be exercised universally. There have been areas with high incidence of Covid infection in teachers, there have also been areas where it has been far lower. Invoking section 44 would also have to mean that the h&s measures within a particular school were not sufficient.

@whydobirds

And d) in a category that will really suffer financially if unable to earn.

Plexiglass screens have only become a thing in cabs down here since the beginning of this lockdown, however. I had to get a cab a few weeks back and he had improvised a screen from cling film...

Absolutely. I forgot d)

My brother is a bus driver. Once it was realised that they were disproportionately affected (and that happened very early on), things happened very quickly. He now drives wearing a mask, all his passengers have to wear a mask, and he's protected from them by what is virtually a cube of plexiglass.

But the demographic of bus drivers is different from that of taxi drivers, they're less likely to lose money if they can't work, and they have employers responsible for their safety, rather than being self-employed.

And @saraclara even with that, bus drivers are at double the risk of most people

[quote TrashedWarrior]@McFarts that must be an LA decision.

Government guidance was to be open.

Though in areas where rates are high that would be near impossible so it's likely they're protecting the running of the school as much as possible. [/quote]
Local rates were higher in September and October than they were in December. There has been no class bubbles burst at all, but there was two burst bubbles on hone school transport. My LA just dont following law, and certainly not guidance. Our local parent carer forum and SSENDIAS have published policy on social media, but nothing has been mentioned about the SEN school fully opening at anytime in the near future. SEN units in mainstream schools and the kids in mainstream have all been offered full time school.

Thing is. Everyone has an equally valid reason why they don't want to get sick and die. But...there isn't the capacity to vaccinate everyone simultaneously.
So it absolutely should go by need in terms of vulnerability then need in terms of society (childcare and other key workers) with more vulnerable categories within that sector prioritised first.

@Annabell80

Should be nursery staff rather than teachers but unfortunately they don't appear to matter. Just as a side though the general public appear to have no fucking idea how to socially distance so shop workers are at risk. At leas 40%of people can't wear a mask and then there are the ones who think it's fine to touch everything and spit at you. Teachers shout the loudest that's all.

This. Down on the carpet cuddling the children. No masks. Can’t open windows as it’s too cold for the babies etc. Everyone thinks they should be first it’s very sad and divisive.

Why do people keep saying shop workers are behind a screen? The majority aren't. Those supervising scan and go and self service tills aren't. Nor customer service or all those on the shop floor or those on counters or bakery.
Then you have the customers who just don't seem to understand how to wear a mask.
I would have hoped that people would be a little more appreciative of shop workers now (not to the extent of getting a vaccine though) but nope we're still verbally assulted if not physically, spat at, sworn at all on minimum wage.
Then people come on here and say you're wearing a mask, stop moaning. It is absolutely not an easy or safe job (7 people in one department isolating due to Covid, no idea how many in the whole store.)

Just as a side though the general public appear to have no fucking idea how to socially distance so shop workers are at risk. At leas 40%of people can't wear a mask and then there are the ones who think it's fine to touch everything and spit at you.
Teachers shout the loudest that's all.

@Annabell80 I don't know where you live, but I haven't seen a single person not wearing a mask in my local supermarkets in months. Maybe I live in an unusually compliant area, but I seriously question your assertion that there's any part of the country where 40% don't wear them.