to think if they vaccinate teachers- they should also do shop and other key worker too?

[Pat123dev]

I understand teachers want vaccination, who wouldn't want it. But why are other key workers not being considered too? Shop workers, police force many others, must see 100s if not 1000s of people a day?
Or is that why they're not vaccinating them yet, because they're all exposed more than those at home and it's too big a group so best to stick vulnerable for the time being?

Starmer makes incredibly unhelpful suggestions

It should be by risk - which there is now data on

I completely agree that vaccinating those most at risk from dying from covid should be top of the queue but once we get down to under 50s with no other risk factors, teachers, police and other key workers should be next in line.

Teachers have a good argument for being in front of shop workers and similar because both shop workers and customers wear a face mask and they are usually in a large room and 2m away or behind a plastic screen. Teachers in contrast are in confined spaces with no PPE with 30 plus children wearing no masks several times a day and are often forced to get very close to them.

Again it doesn't surprise hearing the "teachers need to wait their turn" and "teachers just threaten to strike to get their own way". I think we must have the worst record in the world for the way teachers lack respect and value in this country.

@Doublefaced I think you will find in many, if not most, schools it is absolutely true. Teachers have been told not to wear masks whilst teaching as pupils cannot understand what they are saying.

BTW I'm not saying teachers should be vaccinated in order to open schools - I completely agree with above statements on that front, it wouldn't stop the kids spreading it amongst themselves and taking it home to their families.

Does anyone feel like we're falling into the trap of turning on each other rather than looking at the bigger picture? Perhaps to distract us all from the ineptitude of our policy makers?

Schools are not closed. I had 23 people in my classroom today.

I don’t see why Starmer would be doing that @Ohthatwaymadnesslies and it is he that has made this proposal, without showing the scientific evidence and expected impact on trajectory of pandemic.

The JCVI idea of occupational priority (as a political decision) as the start of phase 2 plus their suggestions of which occupations might be considered for top priority seemed to enjoy considerable support

Not sure why the opposition wants to change that, not why now,

I’m sure I’ve seen article this week about vaccinating police officers which makes sense to me. I hope that teachers are also vaccinated soon. I think if they were it would help to get schools open and running again. That’s not to say that I don’t think shop workers shouldn’t be high up on the list but from a tactical point of view as much as risk one I agree getting teachers vaccinated should be a priority.

@Freddiefox

Nursery staff who provide personal care and are discouraged from PPE should also be prioritised.

However I think the police should be first

I think that the people who would be supervising (and educating, but most of all supervising) police officers' children so they can go to work would be more useful.

@bloodywhitecat

My daughter teaches in a special school, she suctions tracheostomies, deals with pump feeds, performs oral and nasal suction, and sometimes gets bitten or spat at. Why shouldn't she be vaccinated like other people providing personal care?

Our local authority arranged vaccinations for special school staff last weekend. Not part of the national programme but they were able to do it locally.

I find it insulting as an early years worker being compared to a shop worker. I wish I had the option to sit behind a Perspex screen and wear a mask - I don't! Apart from extra hand washing/cleaning, nothing has changed in my job. I still spend all day cuddling children, changing nappies, feeding them etc.

Oh and before anyone announce's I could just leave me job, of course I can, but if all who are scared leave then where will that leave nurseries? Very short staffed and unable to open. I'm sure parents will be thrilled with that! We just can't bloody win.

Because vaccinating teachers won't really help the big picture. Its the kids spreading it and then taking it home to their families. I honestly think that schools will have to stay shut until they either vaccinated the children or the cases fall to an acceptable level.

@ NeverDropYourMoonCup

And where do you think the keyworker children went before they were old enough for school?
Oh yes nurseries. So by that argument nursery staff who are open to all key working children, not just the ones working out the home should come first.

So no I don’t think that’s an reason for teachers to push to the front.

Teachers are fab but they are no more valuable than other keyworkers

@Bluewavescrashing

Schools are not closed. I had 23 people in my classroom today.

How many sat on your lap?

@needadvice54321

I find it insulting as an early years worker being compared to a shop worker. I wish I had the option to sit behind a Perspex screen and wear a mask - I don't! Apart from extra hand washing/cleaning, nothing has changed in my job. I still spend all day cuddling children, changing nappies, feeding them etc.

Oh and before anyone announce's I could just leave me job, of course I can, but if all who are scared leave then where will that leave nurseries? Very short staffed and unable to open. I'm sure parents will be thrilled with that! We just can't bloody win.

I think it’s insulting to be so dismissive of shop workers. Not all of them work constantly on checkout you know. What about the shelf stackers and home shoppers who need to go round the store? Whether they should be vaccinated before teachers is another argument but shop workers are key workers too and deserve respect.

@iVampire

I don’t see why Starmer would be doing that *@Ohthatwaymadnesslies* and it is he that has made this proposal, without showing the scientific evidence and expected impact on trajectory of pandemic.

The JCVI idea of occupational priority (as a political decision) as the start of phase 2 plus their suggestions of which occupations might be considered for top priority seemed to enjoy considerable support

Not sure why the opposition wants to change that, not why now,

Sorry, I meant more the conversation around vaccinations and certain groups/professions being prioritised over others. It feels like over the last year there's been a drive to pit different groups against one another as a distraction from the decisions being made by our government. The discussion around who gets the vaccine first is just another example of the public being left to squabble over who is most deserving of protection, rather us questioning those in power. Starmer calling for a change to the vaccination list is a separate issue in itself!

Totally they do @buffyp , but I find it hard to hear them being compared to us. I can't imagine they go around hugging their customers.

I think anyone who works in a customer facing job is at risk

Nursery workers, teachers and anyone who has to come into close contact with others (particularly those without PPE) should be high up the queue once nhs staff/care workers and obviously all of those with a higher risk of dying, have been vaccinated.

I agree. All key workers should be vaccinated, I’m just not sure on how to prioritise them. Also there needs to be cleared definition of a key worker.

@Freddiefox

@ NeverDropYourMoonCup

And where do you think the keyworker children went before they were old enough for school?
Oh yes nurseries. So by that argument nursery staff who are open to all key working children, not just the ones working out the home should come first.

So no I don’t think that’s an reason for teachers to push to the front.

Teachers are fab but they are no more valuable than other keyworkers

There are significantly greater numbers of children aged 5-16 than there are 0-4 - just in terms of the number of employees that would be able to work once their children were back in school, I think it makes sense to look at the group that will have the greatest effect first.

[quote mangothoughts]@Doublefaced I think you will find in many, if not most, schools it is absolutely true. Teachers have been told not to wear masks whilst teaching as pupils cannot understand what they are saying. [/quote]
I think you will find that this is quoted time and time again.
I think you will also find that despite being repeatedly asked to do so, no one has yet produced evidence that teachers have been disciplined, warned or suspended for wearing a mask in class.
DCs school, pupils AND teachers have been wearing masks since last term.
To say that teachers are not allowed to wear masks is simply untrue.

Evidence from Public Health England (PHE) shows that people with a learning disability in England have died from coronavirus at morethan 6 times therate of the general population.
65 per cent of people with alearning disability who have died from diagnosed or suspected coronavirus in England had a mild or moderate learning disability.
Despite this, not all people with a learning disability are being prioritised alongside other vulnerable people for coronavirus vaccines.
Currently, the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI) have prioritised adults with Down's Syndrome (priority group 4) and people with severe and profound disabilities (priority group 6) to receive the vaccine.
This is great news, but they have not indicated that people with mild or moderate learning disabilities should also be prioritised, leaving out huge numbers of people.
..young people with learning disabilities aged 18-34 are thirty times more likely to die from Covid-19 than those without a learning disability
Please sign this petition if you feel people with mild to moderate learning disabilities should be in a priority group fro the Covid vaccine
petition.parliament.uk/petitions/562694

Schools are not shut.
Teachers are still working like crazy.
Teachers have never threatened to strike.
Lots of teachers live with older people.
Schools were limited to key worker and vulnerable children to protect communities.

Is there documented evidence that teachers/school staff/nursery have a higher risk of needing hospital admission or dying? Are they at a greater risk of dying or taking up a hospital bed, than those who will be knocked further down the priority list?

Teachers being vaccinated wont stop community spread, given its the children who are spreading the virus, 2 - 3 people in a classroom of 30 plus people being vaccinated, will have little effect. Plus bubbles will still burst, it would do nothing to stop the disruption to education nor would it aid the economy.

There are significantly greater numbers of children aged 5-16 than there are 0-4 - just in terms of the number of employees that would be able to work once their children were back in school, I think it makes sense to look at the group that will have the greatest effect firs

However, if you are using the argument of keyworkers being able to work and schools enabling this, i would argue 11 pluses are at home and can continue home schooling. Vaccinate the teachers in primary schools, along with nursery staff and out of school Wrap around carers this enables all the parents of children who require childcare to work.
If enabling keyworkers to work is the aim, this is a fair solution.

Leave senior schools staff until after.