To think this response to a hospital complaint isn’t good enough ?

[famedThesaurusofTheforgotten]

Dd had been unwell for some months in 2019. Repeated trips to gp. Nothing found.
Stomach aches, cold all the time, not growing well feeling sick etc etc all those sorts of symptoms and worsening. Kept being told ‘viral’

One week she was so unwell we took her to a and e as I suspected anaemia maybe as she was sleeping a lot and had no energy?
I was very worried we were seen and a dr said she probably needs some bloods done which I agreed with and we went to wait for the emla cream etc.

Then we were called through by a diff dr and agressively questioned then said she actually didn’t actually think bloods were needed i said I wanted her to have them done she kept shouting at me in front of dd ‘why do you want me to hurt her by putting needles in her ?’ And ‘I won’t stick needles in a child for no reason ‘
She was absolutely horrible told us dd was ‘fine ‘ That she looked fine I tried to explain she looked so much healthier a year before and had now become paler and thinner but she said no she looked fine to her

She was aggressive and was telling me I wanted to have my child hurt for no reason with a needle ??

I decided to walk out and we then went private. Waited a couple of weeks had bloods and dd was anaemic and had coeliacs.
I complained to the hospital and this has taken months to investigate then again as they said nothing had been found the first time that the dr hasn’t done anything wrong so i said no look at this again and theybe come back with ‘sorry that you felt this way’ basically. No apology no admittance that dd had needed bloods nothing and I’m so cross we were treated like we wanted to hurt our child!
I don’t know what to do now all I’ve been able to do is leave an online review for this dr to warn others but she was abominable and I’m really upset that we don’t even get an apology

@FelicityPike

I’m surprised the doctor let you remove your daughter from A&E when they felt you wanted to hurt her, very surprised they didn’t call the social worker actually.

This was how I felt she was that accusatory it was dreadful

I don’t think you have done anything wrong taking your DD to A&E when getting no where with a gp. It has only been because of A&E visits that anything has been done with 2 of my DDs. GPS were constantly fobbing me off until things happened and I had to call 111 out of hours and they sent ambulances, the trips to A&E where what got things moving for me. After seeing a different GP he was furious that both had been fobbed off so long. He actually raised a complaint to address why it had happened with in the practice for 1 of them and also requesting retraining for the advice both myself and my DH had been given about our other DD.

With the needles, Drs are generally reluctant to draw bloods from a child as it’s not a nice experience but that dosnt mean you should be accused of trying to intentionally hurt your child for requesting them. Each time my DD has had them it has been done at the hospital not GP surgery.

I do however agree that, like my DD, the fault here really lies with your GP and your efforts may be better spent speaking to them as it undoubtedly put you and DD at unnecessary risk having to visit A&E at this time.

@famedThesaurusofTheforgotten I really feel for you. I went through very similar.
My son started with symptoms of being unwell when he was 5/6. He became severely constipated , he had massive sores [ similar to cold sores, but not ] around his mouth to the point he had trouble opening his mouth. He had the most foul breathe! Very, very sore stomach pains, really tired all the time, losing weight.
I regularly took him to the GP [ we saw every GP and nurse in the practice ]. They referred him to a toilet training clinic!! He was put onto very large doses of movical.

This went on for over two years, he was regularly given creams and antibiotics for his face, he developed large ulcers inside his mouth. I started taking him weekly to the GP, no one took it seriously, they took me as an over anxious parent.
Eventually I insisted he be referred to hospital which the doctor reluctantly agree to. He wrote a sarcastic letter to the consultant telling him that he was only referring to keep me quiet.

As soon as the consultant saw him, the consultant said he was sure it was either crohns or colitis. The sores around his mouth were oral facial crohns so distinctive. A colonoscopy confirmed his suspicions, my son has massive inflammation and ulcers all through his digestive tract -- no wonder he had been in so much pain. He was put straight onto high doses of steroids' to bring this inflammation down as well as meds to control his crohns.

I wish now that I had gone back to the surgery to make a formal complaint, but at the time I was just grateful to find out what was actually wrong with my child. Even with this diagnosis many years later we still get doctors who try to down play the symptoms when he is flaring.

I feel that you probably need to accept that even by complaining it won't change the outcome. You need to concentrate on keeping your daughter well. Good luck to you both x

I have coeliac. I also went to A&E at one point pre-diagnoses because 111 told me to. They couldn't help, and I did feel like if wasted their time. I was down to about 6 stone or something silly, my stomach looked 6 months pregnant, hair falling out, mouth ulcers, cracked skin, vomiting and more. I honestly thought I was dying. I was early 20's so I can't imagine how scary it must have been for you to see your child in a similar way.

Gently though - it's not A&E to blame. It's your GP. Diagnosing coeliac always seems to be the last thing on the list unless you know about it yourself and press for tests. I didn't have a clue.

Not all GP's are like this I'm sure (I'm not GP bashing, please don't think I am) but there are huge gaps when it comes to this I think. I'd honestly take it up with them.

A&E is not there to deal with non emergencies just because GP is not doing what you want them to do.

While I agree with this to a degree, sometimes you don't actually know if you're dealing with an emergency. When DD was 3 I had her at the GP 3 times in as many days and they kept telling me the same thing - that it was a viral issue. I felt it wasn't but they just wouldn't take me seriously.

After the last appointment and being told by them I was 'over protective', I took DD to A & E. I didn't know what else to do. Fortunately, they took me seriously and did blood tests etc on DD and admitted her as she was clearly unwell. Within a couple of hours she was diagnosed with Type 1 diabetes and was in the early stages (thank god) of ketoacidosis.

I did complain about my GP and the hospital confirmed that had she not been seen when she was they were in no doubt that DD would have died.

So while, yes A & E is for accidents and emergencies, sometimes we don't know what we're dealing with.

OP all of the posters saying you shouldn't have gone to A&E clearly haven't ever had a seriously ill child where the GP is not helping at all. How was you supposed to know something life threatening wasn't happening? The treatment you've received from your GP and that A&E doctor was disgraceful. I'd complain about the GP as well. I agree with another post about going to the Parliamentary and Health Service ombudsman. If you was treated this way by the doctor how many others must there be? I think people think as the NHS is providing a free service that you should just accept substandard care. Until it happens to them of course.

@HoppingPavlova

Coeliac is not an issue for A&E. The clue is in the name. There was no accident requiring immediate attention and this is not an emergency as such but something that should have been dealt with via the GP and subsequent correct pathway. Your child had an ongoing issue (12mths according to your post), increasing lethargy and you thought A&E was the solution? The reality is that your child managed several more weeks before seeing someone privately and having the issue dealt with so not an emergency requiring A&E. Maybe the providers in A&E were sick of it being used inappropriately?

This!

@GreySkyClouds Have you read any of the other posts from people (mine included) who took their child to A & E because they were scared about the lack of GP help? Those of us who thank god every day that we did?

GPs don't always get it right and sometimes, there isn't time to wait. My daughter would have died if I hadn't taken her to A & E. It's all there in black and white from the complaint and subsequent investigation.

I think you can see now the A and E issue is one of communication - I’d let that one go as clinically they were correct. GP is different as you highlighting this will make them think of coeliac in future and is therefore a useful thing to do

Do you know why the first doctor didnt come back and take bloods if they had just gone off to get emla and equipment, how was your poor dd coping with all this, was she happy to have a blood test or was she getting upset and distressed. In hindsight maybe you didnt need to walk out, it could have been dealt with at the time with the consultant in charge or pals, it sounds very difficult but direct your frustration at why you to go to a&e

OP you did the right thing. I’m glad she is getting better and yes GP and A&E doctors should be held accountable.

When you feel like your banging your head against the wall with the GP what the hell are you supposed to do?

My friend has similar with her little baby, they treated her like a neurotic new mother who was finding problems. Both the HV and GP suggesting she contact social services fir support. She went to the local hospital and basically told the same. She travelled to a further hospital and refused to leave till some one took her babies issues seriously. A doctor found that she had severe GERD and her tiny esophagus was full of painful blisters. My friend was devastated that fir the first six months of her babies life she’d been in pain and not thriving or putting weight on properly because of something that is easily remedied that three health care professionals has missed and out it down to her be neurotic and not being able to cope.

I haven’t rtft but just want to say well done @famedThesaurusofTheforgotten for sticking with it and getting the help your dd needed because many people would have been stopped by those hurdles and a misplaced trust in the doctors authority.

I don’t think it’s worth your energy pursuing the matter. I’ve had a few appalling incidents (quite a few as I have a dc with SN and blaming and belittling mum is a cost effective policy) and ime experience if you complain the medical professions close ranks and you’ll get nowhere. I lodged a formal complaint about a pharmacist giving me the wrong strength prescription (a factor of ten), the wrong dosage instructions (4 times a day instead of 3), and mixing the names on the adult and baby prescriptions. The last error I caught so nobody died but the Phamaceutical body I complained to didn’t even consider it serious. . Sometimes you just have to conserve your energy for where it will count and let it go.

It's your GP you need to be talking to. Not A&E.

The doctor's attitude sounds horrible and I don't blame you for complaining about that. But I don't think you'll get anything more from the hospital in terms of apology.

I have heard years ago that some organisations avoid giving apologies where possible as it could open them up to litigation (i.e. they admit they are at fault, so could then be held liable for out of pocket expenses, cost of alternative treatment, etc.) So they try to acknowledge your feelings without giving judgement on the actual situation.

I get that A&E wasn't the best place for your DD at the time and I know all NHS staff are under awful pressure, but this doctor sounds like a nasty piece of work from what you've described. Hopefully she will get a dressing down, although whether it will make a difference...

Hope your DD is feeling better and with the diagnosis.

You did the right thing op, I’ve been in your shoes, GP was useless, took my child to A&E and he was admitted to the children’s ward that night.
A&E are always happy to see young children, it’s not wasting their time.

I don't think the OP 'demanded' blood tests did she ? I thought a doctor offered them and then another doctor decided they weren't neccessary after seeing the child and deciding she looked fine.

@HoppingPavlova

Coeliac is not an issue for A&E. The clue is in the name. There was no accident requiring immediate attention and this is not an emergency as such but something that should have been dealt with via the GP and subsequent correct pathway. Your child had an ongoing issue (12mths according to your post), increasing lethargy and you thought A&E was the solution? The reality is that your child managed several more weeks before seeing someone privately and having the issue dealt with so not an emergency requiring A&E. Maybe the providers in A&E were sick of it being used inappropriately?

This.

@Swordfish1

Personally I do not think you were wrong to go to A&E. I have been in your shoes with my dd. being fobbed off by GP countless times, waiting weeks/months between appointments. being given drugs that they have no idea what is it they are treating, just trying out different things. To the point I said no more drugs unless you know exactly what it is you are treating here. We too ended up in a&e. actually twice, as her condition deteriorated massively on those occasions and one of them I had to call an ambulance. off the back of that last a&e visit we are now seeing a specialist who is taking the investigation into her symptoms seriously. So yes, it took that action to get her actually seen by someone who her gp should have referred to her to at least 18 months ago.

I had no complaint with the a&e doctors we saw, they were fantastic, but I have in the past seen a completely horrible doctor, who delivered me devastating news with the empathy and understanding of a twig. She was so cold, abrupt and treated me like an interference of her day and I was left upset and confused. I can't imagine being treated like that about your child, that must have been so much worse. Not all doctors are lovely unfortunately and I'm sorry you saw one when you were obviously worried about your dd. In all honestly though, I do not think there is alot you can do about it if they have dismissed your complaint. On the upside, if the same doctor received numerous complaints they may start looking into things further, so I do think its important to complain even if you get no where personally.

I also wonder if all these people saying you were so wrong to go to a&e would in fact do the same if their child was in the same situation. I very much doubt they would all sit home and do nothing as their child deteriorates before their eyes.

I had a dr tell me they thought my child had leukaemia at 3am one night

So I couldn’t speak to anyone. I was on my own. No one would pick up the phone. So I had to deal with it on my own. At night. Devastated to my very bone. But couldn’t cry because of my child.

Oh. It was horrific

I don't think it's crazy for a parent to take their ill child to A&E. It's shocking and crazy that one HAS to go the hospital to get done what a GP SHOULD do.

Gp issue
Not a+e
Doc was rude but not a reason to complain
You were stressed / irate
Be grateful you got to the bottom of it
Rather than ruminating over what you’ve been through !!

OP I think you are getting a hard time here unfairly. You are being judged with the benefit of hindsight. I can understand your frustration at the the time as you were sure something was wrong and your GP was doing nothing about it leaving you with little choice.

Coeliacs is notoriously difficult to diagnose. I have an uncle who was ill for years before he was properly diagnosed. I was lucky as when I went to my GP with repeated anaemia the GP sent me straight to a gastroenterologist as he knew my family history and I was diagnosed very quickly.

There are lots of people who go to A&E for far more minor issues and yet still get retreated with respect, you should have been bullied.

However I do agree that your GP is more at fault her from the medical point of view as he is the one who should have investigated this more thoroughly.

Now she has her diagnosis i do hope your DD starts to he an improvement in her general health.

NOT have been bullied😳

How was the Op to know it wasn't an emergency? My friends DS had similar, vague symptoms, fobbed off my Gp for months, told it was just hormones, bad diet etc. She took him to A and E because he was still unwell, sleeping lots, pale. They finally got bloods and he was diagnosed with ALL (Leukaemia). If she hadn't taken him to A and E it may have been months before it was caught. Similar symptoms to OP's DD, similar failure of GPs, just a different outcome.

Have rtft and have massive sympathy for the OP and her dc.

We are told to advocate for our children and seek medical attention and that HCPs would rather see a child than miss something serious, but are also fobbed off, have our concerns minimised and can be accused of wanting to harm our children by erring on the side of caution.....

It's true rock and hard place territory, partly driven by the idea that mothers will attention seek via medical routes through their children, which can happen but is incredibly rare, and if it suspected appropriate investigations could take place.

No mentally healthy mother wants to see their child sick and suffering, and if a parent neglects their childs health they are dealt with by the authorities.

It seems to be a no win situation, and this clusterfuck could have been avoided so easily by the GP doing proper investigations and not heightening the anxiety of the situation leading to the A and E scenario.

It's really not as black and white as some posters would like to make out.