Why can't the government create 'Nightingale' schools.

[Jessy193819]

I may be in la la land here and I bet you any money it's all to do with funding.
But the nightingale hospital was open to help NHS (lots of controversy about how useful it's been I know).

How come the government can't use hubs and other unused buildings to create some 'mini schools' (per say) to help with social distancing and creating smaller class sizes during covid.

There are thousands of supply teachers and supply TA's out there who would probably jump at the chance to apply for these roles.

There probably is a reason why this won't happen but it'd help ensure all children have a full-time education whilst reducing class sizes.

The local schools who have serious issues with their buildings were having serious issues with their school buildings well before 2010. The schools that have huge issues with ventilation because their windows are crap would have issues with ventilation if COVID had happened before 2010

@ineedaholidaynow

The local schools who have serious issues with their buildings were having serious issues with their school buildings well before 2010. The schools that have huge issues with ventilation because their windows are crap would have issues with ventilation if COVID had happened before 2010

100% agree. School buildings don't suddenly fall into disrepair - it's decades of neglect & lack of maintenance. Any badly designed schools in use today were almost certainly designed/built more than a decade ago. My son started secondary in 2011 - the school was barely habitable - leaking roof in one building meant an entire top floor was out of use and the downstairs library had buckets to catch the leaking water. They still had one of those ancient wooden classrooms (we had them in the 70s at our school - we called them cow sheds!) that was literally falling apart, lengths of wood and guttering hanging off. The whole school underwent a massive transformation in the last decade - new roof, top floor classrooms back into use, shiny new sixth form centre, all the old "temporary" classrooms removed and new science block put in their place, etc. There's been plenty of spending in the last decade. But like EVERY decade, schools have had to take their turn, even in Blair's spendthrift years!

Because it's not just the venue and the teachers (assuming both could be found to give every child the same opportunity. Unlikely). It's the cost of kitting out such venues. They would need desks and chairs, IT equipment, whiteboards etc. Some could be shifted from the original school (such as stationery, half the school library...) but the cost of everything else is enormous.

user1497207191 Tue 26-Jan-21 11:33:58

^^ Totally agree. Our primary is actually extremely well off and has had an absolute load of building work over the past few years.

I wish schools and the NHS could be lifted out of party politics and given special ring fenced funding and cross party teams to pluck the best things out of the world and implement them.

You are better off knowing the dc in your group as well it would take ages to get to know the dc - their quirks and needs. I would not be happy with this and mass community mixing

I want her to go to school, but when its warmer and Nos are suppressed and a huge amount of people are vaccinated.

@Watchingbehindmyhands so how can other countries have done this?

[quote ineedaholidaynow]@Watchingbehindmyhands so how can other countries have done this?[/quote]
which countries have ?

Denmark ?
v v v high tax rates, very well funded public sector

who else ?

But people aren't just saying it is about the money, it is about the logistics. They have managed the logistics too. I am assuming they haven't rebuilt the equivalent of a classroom in an unused building.

@ineedaholidaynow

But people aren't just saying it is about the money, it is about the logistics. They have managed the logistics too. I am assuming they haven't rebuilt the equivalent of a classroom in an unused building.

Who are "they"

links to evidence that other countries have actually made it work?

@doctorhamster

Because they're a bunch of cunts who won't do anything unless it benefits them and their mates.

This is the bottom line 😕

So 33000 schools. How many class groups in the average primary- 28 or so? Secondary similar? So 33000 x 56 is about 1.8 million classes. So 1.8 million additional rooms and staff?

And not just sourcing those rooms but appraising the facility for adequate heating, asbestos, provision of toilets, somewhere to eat etc, carrying out a risk assessment, equipping the room for learning and so on.

Even if you only consider primary schools, there's roughly 21000 so still over half a million individual classes.

Would you want your children taught by a leisure centre attendant or a youth group worker as suggested above?

But some schools did try and consider using village halls etc in the summer/winter term but were told they couldn't by the Government, so some schools haven't found it a ridiculous idea

@Bourbonic I think when someone suggested youth group workers, they meant as support staff not teachers.
There are qualified teachers, such as suoply, who would jump at the chance.
Like I said, even pre-covid, 28-30 children in a class is ridiculous in terms of how much support can actually be given when you compare them to classes that have around 15 and under.

You would also have liability problems. Currently the RPA out similar commercial insurance schemes only cover the existing set ups. They would have to be renegotiated which could take time - RPA more straightforward to do but not everyone is signed up to that. Then if they were set up as new organisations instead of satellite sites they would need their own arrangements, DBS and safeguarding checks, policies and procedures, due diligence, and who would be responsible for governance/oversight/finances? Nice idea but not as easy to do as you might think.

Nightingale hospitals are a waste of money
that would have been better spent on real hospitals.

Nightingale schools would be the same
hence why no country has actually done them

@ineedaholidaynow

But some schools did try and consider using village halls etc in the summer/winter term but were told they couldn't by the Government, so some schools haven't found it a ridiculous idea

Indeed, I know our local village primary school head teacher. He had already got agreement in principle to use our village hall and scout hut (both free offered by parish council) and church hall (free offered by church) - all adjoining the school playing fields and entrances, and was close to securing agreement to using the (closed at the time) village library. He'd done all that last Spring and was ready to go after the May bank holiday. But he was told not to by the county council. It's all still available to him. Parish council and church were and still are willing to do whatever it takes to get/keep the children in school. By the way, the school in question has still not had a single covid case among it's staff or pupils, so closing (and not letting it spread into nearby buildings) is a massive over-reaction to very low risk in our area.

There are thousands of supply teachers and supply TA's out there who would probably jump at the chance to apply for these roles.

🤣🤣🤣

And, even if there were these teachers waiting in the wings, can you imagine the headlines: "Nightingale schools staffed by supply TAs" with a picture of a mum with her two sad faced 5yo twins saying "they're only being supervised by a TA".

Then where would you put them? Our of town. Great. How are the children getting there... so let's put on school buses... oh dear, are they overcrowded, we didn't think of that....

@user1497207191 it won't have been the county council that forbade your headteacher - or if they did, they were just the messenger.

The DfE actively got in the way of schools opening to more children last year. They didn't just ban the use of ANY additional premises. At the very last minute when schools had created rotas to enable all children to come back for some of the time in a safe way, they banned any form of rota and insisted on specific year groups being prioritised.

At every step of the way the DfE has made things very much worse. The threat of legal action when some London and other badly hit schools wanted to switch to remote learning the week before Christmas was criminal. There are likely to have been deaths in the community as a result. A complete lack of any kind of foresight on their part led to the fiasco of primary schools opening for one day, then being told at 8pm to switch to remote.

How Williamson, having presided over all this and lied to the select committee, is still in a job beggars belief.

DD10 would love your mini-school plans, OP! She would find it exciting to be learning somewhere new, and be with actual children rather than at home with DP and me.

She (shhh) likes supply teachers too.

@Witchend, have you got an issue with what @user1497207191village school was suggesting.

Many small Primary schools were already using community venues pre-COVID, some will use local playing fields as they don't have enough outdoor space, others will use the community hall for indoor pe/assemblies if they don't have a large enough hall. This is what people are suggesting to help get more children into school safely, not building/recreating a whole new school. But as I have seen suggested, why not have 1 year group, who are currently being homeschooled, one day a week go to the local playing fields and have a run around with qualified pe instructor, maybe throwing some maths in, work out the size of the field, recite timetables as they hop round the field. Gives them exercise, bit of education and time to see their friends in the flesh, and their parents a break from homeschooling. Doesn't put pressure on bubbles already in the schools. As people are saying the health of welfare of the children is important, things like this could help, without leading to bubbles bursting and rates going up.

english.elpais.com/society/2020-10-28/a-room-a-bar-and-a-class-how-the-coronavirus-is-spread-through-the-air.html

Doesn't matter how few in a group - transmission would be almost guaranteed by the end of a day if one member had Covid, so you still have the issues of households mixing that is the problem with schools!

I should say, transmission risk would be lowered dramatically with fresh air, breaks for airing the rooms out between each hour long session, and masks worn, but making all those things happen on a massive scale in tons of different venues with different layouts and timetables etc would be tricky.

@witchend

2 points.

1. There are many supply teachers in the UK. Just look at supply teacher groups on Facebook - thousands of people in the groups.

2. do you have a problem with supply TAs? They are no different to permanent TAs.
   Many schools actually have long-term supy TAs helping the children.

3. There are such thing as QUALIFIED teachers on supply.

I really hope you are not in education to have so little regard for colleagues because they are 'supply'

There are many supply teachers in the UK. Just look at supply teacher groups on Facebook - thousands of people in the groups

The numbers in the group means very little. I am on a number of those groups but I no longer supply

Although I agree, the professional attitude towards being a supply teacher is often unpleasant. I lost count of the number of times someone said ‘oh, we didn’t realise you’d be so capable/articulate/knowledgeable/good....I am a perfectly adequate teacher. I went to supply to manage a particularly difficult personal situation where I knew I would be unreliable for a while and didn’t feel I could do exam classes anymore. When that passed, I co it used in a long term post and am still there years later.