Why can't the government create 'Nightingale' schools.

[Jessy193819]

I may be in la la land here and I bet you any money it's all to do with funding.
But the nightingale hospital was open to help NHS (lots of controversy about how useful it's been I know).

How come the government can't use hubs and other unused buildings to create some 'mini schools' (per say) to help with social distancing and creating smaller class sizes during covid.

There are thousands of supply teachers and supply TA's out there who would probably jump at the chance to apply for these roles.

There probably is a reason why this won't happen but it'd help ensure all children have a full-time education whilst reducing class sizes.

So then why not use the actual schools which are already equipped both for teaching and learning?

It’s potentially a good idea @Jessy193819
Would have been if the government had started investing months and months ago. And you’re right about supply of course. Real mixed bag of reasons for doing it. I’m one of the ex-head-of-department ones and work pretty much constantly, but I don’t get dragged into the politics and grind because I know when I’m leaving. I go in, do my best and they can’t hurt me. Bullying management pretty much finished me for permanent work.

There is a national shortage of headteachers at primary and special

@Notcontent no worries, I remember when I was on supply, some permanent teachers looked down on me (rare but it happened sometimes, most were amazing) so my gut always get defensive about supply teachers, sorry if I misinterpreted

@Bourbonic The classes in my primary school have around 26-30 children per class. I just thought creating spaces so classes can have a max of 15 pupils would be more covid-secure but it doesn't seem possible

Nightingale Hospitals have been a waste of time and money
because there is a shortage of the right staff

Nightingale schools would be the same
and WHY would you want to pile lots of kids together in one place
leaving their real school empty?

I wouldn't drop mine at a random location to be supervised (maybe) by randoms I don't know and who've never even met the kids. I also wouldn't trust adequate background checks were done for such a hurried measure at such a chaotic time - and predators thrive in chaos and anonymity.

@Jessy193819 I'm also North West in a large secondary and I'll be honest, it is difficult to recruit good teachers. We are a decent school with a good reputation and a relatively low turn over yet half of our Maths department do not have degrees in Maths. If we are lucky we have 10 applicants to a job, compared with 60-70 a decade ago. We have spent a lot of time with long term supply, some good, some bad.

For schools to fully open we need to double the staff and facilities, which will cost a huge amount of money thanks to a decade of destruction of the education system. Can you see that happening?

@cardibach yes education is a hit and miss place to work.
I remember when I was on supply and I taught in an SEN school for a day and it was the first time i've ever come home crying as the TA's (5 of them) in the class didn't even think I was worth a 'hello' and would laugh at me and make comments as I was teaching.
I went back a few times as I needed the money but it made me think about how we teach children not to bully yet schools themselves can sometimes be an uncomfortable working environment.
Luckily there are amazing schools out there which kept my confidence up whilst on supply.

@noblegiraffe

Basically, money.

The DfE specifically released guidance that said heads weren’t to implement any plans for return to school that required extra space.

This.

You could take over the leisure centre and the theatre in my town but we don't have the extra staff and we don't have the extra money to pay the extra staff or the cost of the building hire.

It's a great idea in theory, but due to safeguarding I think by the time you had secured suitable venues and put everything in place, the moment would have passed.

@Jessy193819

I may be in la la land here and I bet you any money it's all to do with funding. But the nightingale hospital was open to help NHS (lots of controversy about how useful it's been I know).

How come the government can't use hubs and other unused buildings to create some 'mini schools' (per say) to help with social distancing and creating smaller class sizes during covid.

There are thousands of supply teachers and supply TA's out there who would probably jump at the chance to apply for these roles.

There probably is a reason why this won't happen but it'd help ensure all children have a full-time education whilst reducing class sizes.

Cos they couldn’t staff them either, I imagine

I realise it's not feasible, but I think the idea is not crazy. What we need (needed even before Covid) is a massive push for more schools and spending generally on education. 30 children is loads to have to help learn effectively, especially when they will need extra help to catch up. It would be much better for all if we could reduce that to 15-20. Society as a whole would benefit in so many ways.

Other countries have done this

@Whyarewehardofthinking I understand that but because I'm primary I just see teaching as overloaded. Primary don't even get a bursary anymore and I remember my uni in Liverpool telling us most of us would have to move away if we want a permanent job as there are not enough jobs in the area for all of us.

It's a shame some of these subjects are at a shortage though. But I can see why many people are put off education, especially secondary. Education needs a reform.

@PicsInRed do you take your children out of school if they have a supply teacher

I remember on supply I spent a day in a small school and there were 11 children in the class and it was amazing when I was used to teaching 27-30 in one class.

I'm shocked it's the norm in the UK to have 30 in a class,
Looking past covid, there are so much benefits to small classes, but I doubt it will ever happen!

If funding was available this could possibly help with Primary schools to ease the pressure of homeschooling by working parents.

@PicsInRed supply teachers are qualified. You can get good and bad supply teachers in the same way you can get good and bad permanent teachers.

Supply teachers helped keep the school I work in open during Autumn term, and many others. I have so much respect for them.

When first lockdown end plans were being made the HT of DD & DS’s school teamed up with the HT of the other (tiny) local primary school.

There is a huge community centre hub on the grounds of the primary school. It’s beeb used as emergency classroom space befor when there was a fire so they know the layout well.

They made a plan of working together combining staff and spaces to have smaller class sizes and, most importantly, really good separate bubbles. It would have worked well.

Then they were told no extra spaces and no shared plans.

Also we have a shiny new high school. The old building (which was structurally sound, but too small) was still standing as its demo at Easter was delayed. The head pointed out delaying the demo temporarily to give him more space for bubbles would be super helpful. They pulled it down at the end of the summer holidays so now he has his shiny new school with multitude of open spaces to work with.

When this started the last time I wondered why they weren't using local pubs and libraries, even to get the kids in one or two days a week.

Realistically you could half of the kids in the classroom with the teacher, and half of the kids in another building (i.e a pub) with the TA.

Between the local pub and two of the local churches they'd be able to get everyone in for at least one day a week. While this would have negligible benefits on education and childcare, I think it would absolutely do a lot for children's mental health.

How would you cater for GCSE Chemistry? Computer Science? Design Technology? Food Technology? Music? Etc etc etc? Without basically bui,ding a fully equipped secondary school?

So half it. 15 kids there in the morning and the other 15 kids in the afternoon.

Where otherwise would you think all these venues are coming from? And all the staff to manage the venues, teachers to teach Etc?

Essentially you're saying double the number of schools we have, in a very short space of time. There's 33000 schools in the UK. Where are you getting the premises and resource to open up 33000 schools?

@DanielRicciardosSmile I assume this would only work for Primary school. Secondary school could use rotas. However, due to use of equipment etc some practical subjects may still not be possible.

Sorry, i've probably only thought of this from a primary pespective, I can understand how it'd cause problems for secondaries.

Where otherwise would you think all these venues are coming from? And all the staff to manage the venues, teachers to teach Etc?

Leisure centres that are closed
Pubs that are closed
Churches that are closed
Restaurants that are closed

The gov takes over paying their rent and business rates 🤷🏻‍♀️

Staff: teachers, teaching assistants, ask people who have left to come back, or out of retirement. Those who have the required checks but are currently out of work (for example my DDs stepmum is a youth worker and has lost all of her hours, she'd gladly take the work. I also know someone who runs kids classes in a leisure centre who was furloughed but now redundant). Those two people alone would cover two half years at the local primary school, with the other half covered by the teacher (how many years in primary don't have 1 teacher and 1 learning assistant per class? My primary 2 had 2 teachers and 3 learning assistants last year in P1).

I just think there are ways to do this if they really wanted to.