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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Why can't the government create 'Nightingale' schools.

162 replies

Jessy193819 · 25/01/2021 21:15

I may be in la la land here and I bet you any money it's all to do with funding.
But the nightingale hospital was open to help NHS (lots of controversy about how useful it's been I know).

How come the government can't use hubs and other unused buildings to create some 'mini schools' (per say) to help with social distancing and creating smaller class sizes during covid.

There are thousands of supply teachers and supply TA's out there who would probably jump at the chance to apply for these roles.

There probably is a reason why this won't happen but it'd help ensure all children have a full-time education whilst reducing class sizes.

OP posts:

Letseatgrandma · 25/01/2021 22:42

I just think there are ways to do this if they really wanted to

They (the government) don’t really want to, that’s the problem.

They don’t want to spend any additional money on schools, and I don’t imagine they want parents to find out what it’s like for their children to be taught in classes of 12-15 either, because they’ll like it and realise how much better it is than classes of 30+.

Overoptimistix · 25/01/2021 22:43

It's crazy what a regional difference there is. I'm primary in East Anglia and recruitment is impossible here. When I applied for my first role ten years ago there were 80 applicants but we have to advertise and the readvertise these days as there are so few suitable, qualified teachers.

Our regular supply teachers are amazing but they don't want the commitment - good for them!

Original poster

Jessy193819 · 25/01/2021 22:45

Also about the argument of 'would parents feel comfortable sending their kids to a new place with strangers',
My argument would be that children are very adaptable and many take well to new faces and even nervous children come out their shell after a few days.

Whenever i've been off sick and returned, the children often tell me what a great time they had with the 'stranger' who covered my class.

Also, what about when a teacher goes on maternity leave? A 'stranger' comes into teach.

OP posts:

Original poster

Jessy193819 · 25/01/2021 22:46

@Letseatgrandma As a teacher, when I was on supply and taught classes with 10-15 children, I myself couldn't believe the difference. Classes of 10-15 should be the norm, not 30

OP posts:

ineedaholidaynow · 25/01/2021 22:47

Some of the places they could use such as village halls, scout huts would be familiar to some pupils, pubs maybe not!

Original poster

Jessy193819 · 25/01/2021 22:49

@Overoptimistix it's crazy! There are so many primary teachers in the North West!
There are 3 universities in Liverpool, and my PGCE had over 100 for primary,
Nevermind the PGCE and BA courses in the other universities!
When I was supply, I actually wanted to move to these magical places that have a recruitment crisis but I was never brave enough as knowing my luck I would have moved and not get a job

OP posts:

Original poster

Jessy193819 · 25/01/2021 22:50

Wales even let teachers complete NQT on short-term supply as the government know there are not enough jobs for what there are teachers

OP posts:

Hugepeppapigfan · 25/01/2021 23:08

OP, surely as a teacher you understand that school is not simply about putting a qualified teacher in front of a class.....? As a senior leader I cannot see how branching my school out into other buildings (located where?) would not lead to anything other than me having a serious increase in workload, headaches and stress. Unless you’re suggesting fully separately run nightingale schools with their own leadership teams and governors then it’s a no from me.

VestaTilley · 25/01/2021 23:21

Class sizes would be huge. How could you ensure a safe staff:pupil ratio when you don’t know until the day how many staff you might have in because of the virus? Safeguarding isn’t something you can just pay lip service to.

How would children get to them? There are only a few Nightingale hospitals - for a hub school to work you'd have to drive your kids miles to get there- what if parents don’t drive or have other commitments?

It’s a daft idea. That’s why Govt aren’t doing it.

NoIDontWatchLoveIsland · 25/01/2021 23:31

Op of course the government would love class sizes of 10-15 but it would cost 2-3 times what our current education system does, how the fuck is it supposed to be paid for? Maybe brush up on your maths.

ineedaholidaynow · 25/01/2021 23:53

Denmark did it early on, not sure if they are still doing it. Using buildings that weren’t currently open to the public.

Don’t think the OP was thinking about places the size of nightingale hospitals but utilising buildings like village halls etc that aren’t currently being used. Use a supply teacher and take some of the Primary pupils that are currently stuck at home with parents tearing their hair out!

Secondary schools would use their own buildings but maybe have rotas. Haven’t they currently only got 4% of their students in.

donewithitalltodayandxmas · 26/01/2021 00:00

Where are all the teachers coming from and not all areas have large empty buildings, safeguarding etc
People make out on here things are so simple when in reality most things are not

donewithitalltodayandxmas · 26/01/2021 00:06

And yes i think denmark did / are doing something like this but I believe have a population of under 6 million so a little different.

ineedaholidaynow · 26/01/2021 00:11

@donewithitalltodayandxmas other countries have done it, maybe we can find out how they did it. Obviously it would cost money, which the Government doesn’t like to give to Education for some reason.

It would not work for all areas but in the village where DS went to Primary School there are 2 village halls, a church hall and a scout hut in the surrounding area. All empty at the moment. Would have to spread your DSLs around.

I’m sure some Primaries thought about utilising other properties last Summer term but were told not to by the Government

cardibach · 26/01/2021 08:17

@ListeningQuietly

Nightingale Hospitals have been a waste of time and money because there is a shortage of the right staff

Nightingale schools would be the same
and WHY would you want to pile lots of kids together in one place
leaving their real school empty?

I don’t think you’ve properly read the suggestion. You would take half the children and have small groups in both the school and the alternative venues to allow for distancing.

cardibach · 26/01/2021 08:21

@VestaTilley

It’s a daft idea. That’s why Govt aren’t doing it.

No, class sizes would be 15 or so. Half the class in an alternative venue. Half in school. Qualified teacher with both. What aren’t people understanding? It won’t happen because the government don’t want it, but it could have worked in some areas where there are more teachers than needed. For primary, anyway. Not secondary I don’t think due to specialist teaching - but they could work a rota system, getting intensive tuition fir a week then a week at home to do consolidation and practice work. Government doesn’t want that, either.

cardibach · 26/01/2021 08:23

@OwlinaTree

It's a great idea in theory, but due to safeguarding I think by the time you had secured suitable venues and put everything in place, the moment would have passed.

And if the government had starting putting this in place last March?

cardibach · 26/01/2021 08:25

Look - I pointed out the flaws in this earlier in the thread, and it really isn’t workable for secondary, but there has been no money and no thought about how to open schools sustainably and safely. The government - for reasons I just don’t understand - want all in as normal and nothing else. This leads inevitably to lots of short isolations then everybody out again.

scentedgeranium · 26/01/2021 08:26

At least you're thinking about the problem, OP, even if people are finding sensible reasons it wouldn't work!
I sense our leaders aren't on this at all.
I have no skin in this game, having young adult DC, but I'm looking on, appalled at the further disparity which will emerge at the end of all this.

Rowenasemolina · 26/01/2021 08:31

@Jessy193819

I may be in la la land here and I bet you any money it's all to do with funding. But the nightingale hospital was open to help NHS (lots of controversy about how useful it's been I know).

How come the government can't use hubs and other unused buildings to create some 'mini schools' (per say) to help with social distancing and creating smaller class sizes during covid.

There are thousands of supply teachers and supply TA's out there who would probably jump at the chance to apply for these roles.

There probably is a reason why this won't happen but it'd help ensure all children have a full-time education whilst reducing class sizes.

What a completely bonkers post. What thousands of staff? The country was critically short of teachers before the pandemic, with thousands of vacancies in schools up and down the country, and classes regularly combined in sports halls etc so that 2 teachers and a TA could supervise 3-5 classes. My school had been doing this weekly for several years. During the pandemic, hundreds of teachers have died, been left disabled or left teaching to care for family members left disabled. I changed jobs last summer. I literally had the pick of any 3 or 4 ‘Covid vacancies’ in my subject within 8 miles of my home. Even after I had started with one school, the others still kept contacting me and begging me to come to them. Without even meeting me or knowing me. Just knew I was a qualified teacher and still upright, that was enough to be offered jobs. I intended to retire, but like many others, have delayed retirement to see this through, but the ultra is heading for a CB massive crisis in schools once this is over, and the delayed retirees go too

notanothertakeaway · 26/01/2021 08:39

Your suggestion would be difficult to implement

I think a better solution would be for kids to attend their own school part time, but I'm not sure that's safe yet. I'd prefer kids to stay home for now

notanothertakeaway · 26/01/2021 08:41

@OwlinaTree

It's a great idea in theory, but due to safeguarding I think by the time you had secured suitable venues and put everything in place, the moment would have passed.

I agree with @OwlinaTree

To be fair, back in March 2020, I don't think anyone expected this to last for so long. Had we known, I daresay lots of things would have been done differently

PicsInRed · 26/01/2021 08:42

[quote ineedaholidaynow]@PicsInRed do you take your children out of school if they have a supply teacher[/quote]
No, but they're in the same school, with the same leaders and the team and the same processes in place. That's very different to a bunch of people who dont know each other, brought together by managers who've never met them and supervising kids they've never met in a partitioned stadium.

Eleganz · 26/01/2021 08:42

Why do it when you can get parents to do it much cheaper?

In all seriousness this would be a massive task that we don't have the additional teaching staff or resources for. I'm also not sure that it would help reduce the spread of the virus.

The reality is that if this government tried to do this it would be a centralised nightmare with private companies like Serco skimming off profits and charging out teaching staff at double their pay.

maddy68 · 26/01/2021 08:45

They don't have enough teachers now. We are in massive teacher shortage tjere wouldn't be enough staff even if they could afford it

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