US erasing Women - Janice Turner

[feelingquitehopeful]

It was totally shocking to me this week as a supporter of the Democrats to see Biden choosing his moment carefully on day one to wipe out women's and girl's rights in the states in one fail swoop. There was no discussion, no consultation. No warning. Just like that he removed centuries of our rights as women.

He will now go down in history as the first President that abolished womenhood and Motherhood and women's rights. I am astonished and horrified and reeling actually, even this morning. I have had a few days to process the shock, but no, I am still reeling.

It is now punishable to describe a woman as a mother for instance, or to stop a man/boy with a penis showering with your pre teen daughter at school.
Prisons can no longer keep women safe, they will now lock up male rapists (Identifying as women, which anyone can now do no questions asked) with trapped female prisoners in cells. Can you imagine being in that position? The horror of being trapped in that situation, as survivor this actually keeps me awake at night.

Men can use lavatories, locker rooms and showers with young girls. It is ILLEGAL to now stop them. It is also illegal to stop a man competing in women's sports, making women's and girls sports now obsolete. What girl is going to outrun a biological male?

We have literally, as a sex been erased completely from the legal framework and with it all of our protections thanks to Biden. Men can still be men, because that doesn't offend anyone apparently - they will not be called 'testicle havers' or 'ejaculators' it will only be women subjected to this. So that says a lot of modern equality and where we are with it today in the US.

Women have been reduced to 'Menstruators' and the highly offensive 'black birthing bodies' if you are describing a mother from the BAME community. That is what we must all be called now.

That is the new healing landscape Biden describes as he cuts out the rights of half the nation.

Janice Turner as always is an absolute legend, and her excellent article 'War of words risks wiping women from our Language' in the Times this morning is outstanding, and covers the grave situation we ALL now face. For anyone thinking it could never happen here, think again.

Read it for yourself:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/war-of-words-risks-wiping-women-from-our-language-djhp2mwjg

@SqueakyCarrots

Stop talking about trans rights like trans people don’t already have equal rights.

Trans people are either biologically male, in which case they have male rights as well as all the privilege and power being born male brings. Or they are born female, in which case supporting trans rights erases their sex based rights protections the same way it does all the rest of us women.

This isn’t a trans rights issue, it’s a women’s rights one. Stop letting it get reframed as a trans rights arguement as if there’s any credibility to the line that trans people don’t have rights.

Do trans people need the right to live as the sex role stereotype they feel most comfortable. Sure, they already have that right too. Do they need protection from transphobia? Absolutely if they are being discriminated against because of being trans. Again that’s already law. Self id erases the laws that protect trans people from discrimination or violence based on being trans, as well as all women’s legal rights protections also. There’s no way to prove a person is being discriminated against because they are a male presenting as a woman if people are just a big spectrum of whoever they feel like today. There’s no need to provide medical treatment for transitioning if self id makes anyone a woman by signing a piece of paper.

If the legal definition of women now includes men then there is no way to measure how women vote. There’s no way to assess the disproportionate number of women who are disadvantaged by austerity. There’s no way to record how many women are victims of male violence. There’s no way to measure the sex pay gap. There’s no way to counter the glass ceiling. We could have a Parliament made up of 100% men that is legally 50% women, so we can’t address how under represented women are in decisions that affect us. Women will think what they tell us we think because there’s no way to identify that the 100% of women who voted to criminalise abortion were all male. There will be no way to speak up against 100% of women being pro sex work, because we can’t point out those women are men. 50% of all rapists will be women, because we can’t tell the truth that they are male once self id comes in.

If the legal definition of women includes men then all female sex based protections are gone. As is any chance we can fight to get them back- because there’s no way of measuring women’s needs and women’s views and women’s votes if women includes anyone who feels like it. This puts us back way way before suffragettes, because at least what a woman was wasn’t in dispute then. They could identify women couldn’t vote because they could say who a woman was. If the oppressed class can’t be identified we can’t stand together, we can’t form groups or have any collective voice about our shared needs and shared experiences of being the oppressed class. At least suffragettes could say they were oppressed on the basis of their sex. Now we will be oppressed while having to say we are liberated. They are taking our rights away while selling us the illusion it’s progress. And that means taking away transmens rights too.

We are the chicken sticking it’s neck out to be chopped off.

This needs sending to everyone in the world right now, then everone take a deep breath and move on

@jcyclops

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55774379

Is it coincidence that UK today announces proposals that will make it easier to lock up trans women in women's prisons.

"Up to 500 new prison cells are to be built in women's jails, the Ministry of Justice has announced. These will be built in existing women's prisons to increase the number of single cells available and they will include in-cell showers."

Probably because of the increase in men offending and it looks really bad.

However, I do think that, again from underfunding amd lack of training of prison officers, if a transwoman (genetically born man who identifies as female) was sent to jail, that person might fear for their safety. On the other hand prison is not the best place to show any difference, anyway. Anyone differentbin prison might be a target.

@AStudyinPink

I would be interested to know whether Joe Black believes a person can identify into a different racial group and force others to say they are a member of that group (or be labelled ‘pieces of shit’). I would be interested to know whether Joe Black thinks a person can identify in or out of being physically disabled and force others to say they are/are not disabled, because they believe it to be so.

There was an African American woman who did this, many years ago, wasn't there? Identified as white. Or it could have been the other way round. I can't find a reference to it, it was pre-internet days

@Sometimesonly

Otherwise, send that bit in blank. No-one should be including sex as an option if its irrelevant to the service. If you're buying wifi it's irrelevant

The trouble is, if it's an online form it often won't let you go ahead unless you choose something.

This is true. If I was really narked and could be bothered, I would contact the organisation - but depends what it is for

There was an African American woman who did this, many years ago, wasn't there? Identified as white.

I don’t know this exact case but yes, it’s happened in the past.

Joe? Can a person reasonably expect me to say they’re Black when they’re obviously not? Am I a ‘piece of shit’ if I retain my perception that they are obviously white?

What if they say they can walk when they clearly cannot?

Pink
I think you mean Rachel Dolezal. Or maybe Jessica Krug www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/jessica-krug-rachel-dolezal-america-s-white-women-who-want-ncna1239418

in response to the person 'I've known lovely trans people' laws cannot be made on the that basis. Please note THIS month Scottish woman managed to get a bill amended in the Scottish Parliament which was going to remove a women's right as a rape or sexual assualt victim for specifying the sex of their forensic medical examiner. THIS is what abolishing sex in law means. If any of you have any spare cash google For Women Scotland who are in a monumental David and Goliath legal fight with the Scottish Government over redefining the legal definition of women to include men. They are having to raise £150 000

SqueakyCarrots
Excellent post. Thank you.

As for identifying on a form, if there is an ‘other’ box allows us to specify, I would be putting adult human female or natal female if not enough space.

@AStudyinPink

There was an African American woman who did this, many years ago, wasn't there? Identified as white.

I don’t know this exact case but yes, it’s happened in the past.

Joe? Can a person reasonably expect me to say they’re Black when they’re obviously not? Am I a ‘piece of shit’ if I retain my perception that they are obviously white?

What if they say they can walk when they clearly cannot?

And this is the obvious point that those that are called "woke" generally expect to happen

fatblackcatspaw
Terrible. As someone said upthread, NS wants to be in Biden’s pocket.

@Mummyoflittledragon

SqueakyCarrots Excellent post. Thank you.

As for identifying on a form, if there is an ‘other’ box allows us to specify, I would be putting adult human female or natal female if not enough space.

Ooh that is a good idea. Possessor of two XX 23rd chromosomes.

It may have bypassed the BBC, in Operation Ouch, the definition of sex was answered when Dr. Ronx's genotype was revealed - XX chromosomes make her female. (I will have to rewatch the episode and see what is actually said).

Cue in the future that bit being edited out for the re-runs

@Mummyoflittledragon

fatblackcatspaw Terrible. As someone said upthread, NS wants to be in Biden’s pocket.

thanks I'm so bloody angry about this stuff which has been going on for YEARS ... I can barely post a coherent gramatical post about it. But needless to say being KIND? I'M OVER IT. it's just code for fuck off lets just remove more of your hard one rights. My inner suffragette is BIRLING.

Appealing to female sex role stereotype socialisation to ‘be kind’ proves every time that women = adult human female.

Because it’s only ever said to women, never to the men identifying as women.

It also proves be kind= put everyone ahead of your own needs.

This is a symptom of wider identity politics .... groups of minorities will be pitted against each other.
Trans women no matter what they think will never be women. This is a biological fact.
Unless they have been to a doctor /undergone HRT and have a set of metrics that prove that they absolutely are biplogically similar to women they are not. Since when did scientific fact become something you could change at your whims?

@fatblackcatspaw

in response to the person 'I've known lovely trans people' laws cannot be made on the that basis. Please note THIS month Scottish woman managed to get a bill amended in the Scottish Parliament which was going to remove a women's right as a rape or sexual assualt victim for specifying the sex of their forensic medical examiner. THIS is what abolishing sex in law means. If any of you have any spare cash google For Women Scotland who are in a monumental David and Goliath legal fight with the Scottish Government over redefining the legal definition of women to include men. They are having to raise £150 000

This is the same Parliamebt that wabted all children to have a named adult representative out of their family legally allowed to make decisions on their behalf, potentially overriding parental rights - the same parliament (no judgment on being Scottish or anything else - independent, in the EU etc, whatever the people there choose its up to them) who narrowly failed to pass that.

JoeBlack

My husband is a lovely chap. Not once has he ever raped or sexually assaulted a woman. He isn't prone to voyeurism or hiding cameras in toilets or changing rooms to film women in states of undress. On this basis I can't see why men should be kept out of women's facilities. I know a man and he's harmless so where's the problem?

@WhoStoleMyCheese

This is a symptom of wider identity politics .... groups of minorities will be pitted against each other. Trans women no matter what they think will never be women. This is a biological fact. Unless they have been to a doctor /undergone HRT and have a set of metrics that prove that they absolutely are biplogically similar to women they are not. Since when did scientific fact become something you could change at your whims?

It's XX folks!

Let us form the XXWomenSex movement (although the connotations might have unintended consequences!)

@Joeblack066

Because I’m not a piece of shit. I have worked with 3 trans women, gave a close friend who is gender fluid, and a grandchild who is non binary. I am not erased or threatened in any way. DJT was great at ‘facts’. Just like the Daily Fail. You keep stressing about something that isn’t real hun, and I’ll keep valuing my colleagues, friends and family. I know who’d I’d rather be.

@Joeblack066, supporting people with genuine gender dysphoria and wanting to protect women's sex based rights are two different things. You do have the capacity to understand that right? You do understand the difference between sex and gender to begin with, don't you? You actually know that sex is the scientific fact, and gender is a societal belief system, that shouldn't see anyone come to harm but has no precedence over biological fact, right?

YANBU. This situation is awful and terrifying.

Democrats like Biden think they’re doing the right thing, but of course have a complete blind spot when it comes to women.

If Labour get in here it’s what they’ll do too. I despair.

Janice Turner is brilliant, as usual.

@VestaTilley

YANBU. This situation is awful and terrifying.

Democrats like Biden think they’re doing the right thing, but of course have a complete blind spot when it comes to women.

If Labour get in here it’s what they’ll do too. I despair.

Janice Turner is brilliant, as usual.

No, he doesn't have a blind spot for wo.en, wasn't he under some charges of harrassment? Not against men he wasn't. Wasn't Kamala Harris against him?

Overall, if he does what he says for the climate and global issues then good - women (as ever) will just have to get on with protesting. As ever, someone will push the so called "woke agenda" too far, things already predictable as to could happen WILL happen, to young girls and vulnerable women (as ever) and only ,
"actions will be taken" and "lessons learned" after the event, by the misguided law makers unconnected to the events.

I am just glad there are enough people willing to try to oppose it as it filters through societies, laws and countries

This is the same Parliamebt that wabted all children to have a named adult representative out of their family legally allowed to make decisions on their behalf, potentially overriding parental rights -

I remember that, thinking how bloody awful it was and thanking God I wasn’t Scottish. The devolved Scottish government is nothing like the English government, or anything resembling any government the English nation has elected.

The thing that pisses me off about this is like OP said, men's identity remains intact. It's only women's that gets dismantled.

'Black birthing bodies'.

This is absolutely fucking hideous.

The politics this boils down to are fairly straightforward as far as I am concerned. I am now a one-issue voter.

American women haven't had those choices. They were left with a decision between bodily autonomy over their reproductive rights or having all their rights, along with the very definition of their sex-class as women, erased. This is a blood awful dilemma, and quite frankly I think the second option is even worse than the first (albeit my thinking chimes on many more issues aligning with the democrat stance than the GOP).

A niche issue, this isn't. And I'm not a fucking 'bleeder'. How insulting can these people be?

@georgarina

The thing that pisses me off about this is like OP said, men's identity remains intact. It's only women's that gets dismantled.

Exactly. We need to support one another, maybe that's against our nature too tho. But we could try. I also thought that when a man whose wife was having a baby, with the interrogation of him over his employment decisions. I think a lot must be "survival genetics" existing into the present time.

David Attenborough said he once had an idea of looking at "animal behaviours" in humans as a series because he thought that we hadn't got much further on than many species.

So it wpuld have been one episode looking at the idea of ownership such as possessions, child upbringing etc but stumbled at the point about sex (having sex and the chatting up/romancing bit) because to do the series like a nature series would break too many laws, such as filming people without their knowledge - because knowing you are filmed changes behaviours

We are as we are but it doesn't mean we shouldn't try to be better

It's not blood anyway, it's uterine lining, nothing at all connected to the circulatory system. But I suppose "shedder-of-unwanted-uterine-lining-as-a-result-of-non-embryonic-implantation" is a bit of a mouthful