US erasing Women - Janice Turner

[feelingquitehopeful]

It was totally shocking to me this week as a supporter of the Democrats to see Biden choosing his moment carefully on day one to wipe out women's and girl's rights in the states in one fail swoop. There was no discussion, no consultation. No warning. Just like that he removed centuries of our rights as women.

He will now go down in history as the first President that abolished womenhood and Motherhood and women's rights. I am astonished and horrified and reeling actually, even this morning. I have had a few days to process the shock, but no, I am still reeling.

It is now punishable to describe a woman as a mother for instance, or to stop a man/boy with a penis showering with your pre teen daughter at school.
Prisons can no longer keep women safe, they will now lock up male rapists (Identifying as women, which anyone can now do no questions asked) with trapped female prisoners in cells. Can you imagine being in that position? The horror of being trapped in that situation, as survivor this actually keeps me awake at night.

Men can use lavatories, locker rooms and showers with young girls. It is ILLEGAL to now stop them. It is also illegal to stop a man competing in women's sports, making women's and girls sports now obsolete. What girl is going to outrun a biological male?

We have literally, as a sex been erased completely from the legal framework and with it all of our protections thanks to Biden. Men can still be men, because that doesn't offend anyone apparently - they will not be called 'testicle havers' or 'ejaculators' it will only be women subjected to this. So that says a lot of modern equality and where we are with it today in the US.

Women have been reduced to 'Menstruators' and the highly offensive 'black birthing bodies' if you are describing a mother from the BAME community. That is what we must all be called now.

That is the new healing landscape Biden describes as he cuts out the rights of half the nation.

Janice Turner as always is an absolute legend, and her excellent article 'War of words risks wiping women from our Language' in the Times this morning is outstanding, and covers the grave situation we ALL now face. For anyone thinking it could never happen here, think again.

Read it for yourself:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/war-of-words-risks-wiping-women-from-our-language-djhp2mwjg

That being the case, may I ask you when black women consented to language changing, so they can no longer be described as women? You are blasé about it - by what right do you get to decide it is OK?

Is this addressed to me? I am not blasé about it in way. I think it's absolutely disgusting and it fills me with fury. Have you misunderstood my contribution to the discussion or is this addressed to another poster?

Black birthing bodies' really does make my skin crawl

It's awful.

Important to consider why it's women that are being redefined (birthing bodies, cervix havers) without consent, while health messaging aimed at men can still use the words man/men unapologetically and without backlash.

@HmmSureJan

That being the case, may I ask you when black women consented to language changing, so they can no longer be described as women? You are blasé about it - by what right do you get to decide it is OK?

Is this addressed to me? I am not blasé about it in way. I think it's absolutely disgusting and it fills me with fury. Have you misunderstood my contribution to the discussion or is this addressed to another poster?

Apologies @HmmSureJan - I quoted you to agree with you disagreeing with the other poster - should have made that clearer.

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow I thought so initially but then thought I'd better check - still half asleep I think!

How is it even possible that someone can publicly on record describe another human being as a black birthing body and for it to go unpunished? As a minimum a disciplinary hearing should have taken place, and the person sacked on the spot for offensive racism. You can't just walk around calling people things like that. We are supposed to have laws to protect us. If that is not offensive, then I struggling to know what is.

The language is extremely alarming, and has taken such a sinister tone. After much reflection over the weekend, I am beginning to think the situation in the states is not a bad thing. The whole subject needs to be brought into the light, into the mainstream, for proper debate, consultation and scrutiny. We can not continue a piece meal placating approach, slowly eroding away at the rights of other groups.

This way at least we get out in the open and we fight this hate campaign in plain sight.

My dh is appalled as I am, as I think most husbands, brothers and fathers will be. We are not the only ones that think this is totally disgusting and barbaric towards women, and they will also make their feelings known.

This is not over by a long shot.

Why do the people on the feminist board use the word 'woke' as an insult? It means 'alert to social injustice', which surely includes feminism. The word 'woke' has been co-opted by the right wing and now used as an insult. I'm genuinely baffled why feminists are going along with it.

'Woke' is the new 'pious'. Back in our more church-dominated history people were keen to signal their goodness and respectability by showing how observant they were of the routines, teachings, mantras of religion. They demonstrated their piety and felt secure in the protection it offered them, from being ostracised by their communities, vilified by their priests and condemned to eternal damnation. It didn't matter in the slightest bit whether they believed in the words they parroted or spent the duration of the Sunday sermon thinking about a novel way to cook turnip for dinner rather than what was being preached from the pulpit. As long as they went along with it and appeared suitably obedient and pious, they were safe and respectable.

Being woke is the same thing. It relies on repeating mantras, not questioning group-think and not engaging any critical thinking whatsoever. But scratch the surface and it often becomes apparent that it is largely motivated by self-interest and fear of social exclusion. Just as historically many of the most publicly pious people in history have been guilty of living the most un-Christian lives, these days the most vociferously 'woke' often turn out to be the most intolerant, bigoted and self-serving. And flagrantly misogynistic, which is why feminists are rightly scathing of it.

It's not like there's anything new in criticising "virtue signalling" (the act of showing off to others how virtuous you consider yourself to be, in contrast to actually being virtuous, as demonstrated by acting well towards others).

In essence, "virtue signalling" is the target of the parable of the Pharisee and the publican in the New Testament (the Pharisee prays, ostentatiously and publicly, at the front of the Synagogue for everyone to see, while the publican quietly but genuinely repents of his sins in the shadow at the back).

The criticism implied by the phrase "virtue signalling" is targeted at the "signalling" bit of the behaviour, not the "virtue" bit.

It always puzzles me when posters are too thick to see this distinction. Or perhaps too wilfully and deliberately disingenuous).

When I heard the news about the 500 new cells being built at women's prisons (complete with private shower), how sad is it that my first thought was 'hmm, I wonder if 500 more men will now magically find that they are in fact trans women, so as to gain the advantage of going to a women's prison?

see Sojourner Truth on her 'Ain't I a Woman' speech.

The "Ain't I a Woman" speech was not Sojourner Truth's. It was rewritten by a white woman 12 years later for dramatic effect.
www.thesojournertruthproject.com/
Perhaps an anti racism meeting would be a good place to discuss this @katrina11, don't you think? Truth's real speech is quite powerful. Quoting her incorrectly is a bit problematic, no?

@Stellwagen

see Sojourner Truth on her 'Ain't I a Woman' speech.

The "Ain't I a Woman" speech was not Sojourner Truth's. It was rewritten by a white woman 12 years later for dramatic effect.
www.thesojournertruthproject.com/
Perhaps an anti racism meeting would be a good place to discuss this @katrina11, don't you think? Truth's real speech is quite powerful. Quoting her incorrectly is a bit problematic, no?

Well done for checking sources - and it's interesting to think whether the two versions change the content of her speech and writings

It would be good if you used the same curiosity to check the other sources on this thread as well - you might learn even more

It would be good if you used the same curiosity to check the other sources on this thread as well - you might learn even more

Which ones in particular? I'm sure we've all got zoom meetings to attend, and limited time.

I work for the MoJ and we were actively talking about scaling back women's prison last year!! So I am not sure why we need so many more. We could do with more mother and baby facilities granted, but thats hardly going to be needed if the explosion in female offenders is being falsely created by men.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

It would be good if you used the same curiosity to check the other sources on this thread as well - you might learn even more

Which ones in particular? I'm sure we've all got zoom meetings to attend, and limited time.

Yes, is there something specific?

Oh you're back Katrina.....

PMK. This is a fascinating thread but I haven't the time to contribute anything meaningful.

@ginghamstarfish

When I heard the news about the 500 new cells being built at women's prisons (complete with private shower), how sad is it that my first thought was 'hmm, I wonder if 500 more men will now magically find that they are in fact trans women, so as to gain the advantage of going to a women's prison?

I thought exactly the same thing.

@AStudyinPink

Born from what? Jealousy, envy, hatred of us?

Envy. Menstruation, pregnancy, birth and breastfeeding are the outward manifestations of being female (regardless of whether all females have/do these things) that can’t be replicated by surgery or drugs. They say “You’ll never be a woman” to those who obsess over their identities. It’s sad, really.

I'm really interested in this subject so I joined a fb group called trans army to learn more about what it is trans snd non binary people want and how they think I'ts very apparent how an awful lot seem to have a real hatred for c I s people ( as they call men and women who aren't trans) Anyone not trans who tries to post on the group saying they want to learn and be allies are often met with appalling hostility and told their views don't count. It's really odd. I don't understand it. Perhaps envy does have something to do with it.

@AbsintheFriends

Why do the people on the feminist board use the word 'woke' as an insult? It means 'alert to social injustice', which surely includes feminism. The word 'woke' has been co-opted by the right wing and now used as an insult. I'm genuinely baffled why feminists are going along with it.

'Woke' is the new 'pious'. Back in our more church-dominated history people were keen to signal their goodness and respectability by showing how observant they were of the routines, teachings, mantras of religion. They demonstrated their piety and felt secure in the protection it offered them, from being ostracised by their communities, vilified by their priests and condemned to eternal damnation. It didn't matter in the slightest bit whether they believed in the words they parroted or spent the duration of the Sunday sermon thinking about a novel way to cook turnip for dinner rather than what was being preached from the pulpit. As long as they went along with it and appeared suitably obedient and pious, they were safe and respectable.

Being woke is the same thing. It relies on repeating mantras, not questioning group-think and not engaging any critical thinking whatsoever. But scratch the surface and it often becomes apparent that it is largely motivated by self-interest and fear of social exclusion. Just as historically many of the most publicly pious people in history have been guilty of living the most un-Christian lives, these days the most vociferously 'woke' often turn out to be the most intolerant, bigoted and self-serving. And flagrantly misogynistic, which is why feminists are rightly scathing of it.

Succinct description of 'woke', the new 'pious'.

@AbsintheFriends

Why do the people on the feminist board use the word 'woke' as an insult? It means 'alert to social injustice', which surely includes feminism. The word 'woke' has been co-opted by the right wing and now used as an insult. I'm genuinely baffled why feminists are going along with it.

'Woke' is the new 'pious'. Back in our more church-dominated history people were keen to signal their goodness and respectability by showing how observant they were of the routines, teachings, mantras of religion. They demonstrated their piety and felt secure in the protection it offered them, from being ostracised by their communities, vilified by their priests and condemned to eternal damnation. It didn't matter in the slightest bit whether they believed in the words they parroted or spent the duration of the Sunday sermon thinking about a novel way to cook turnip for dinner rather than what was being preached from the pulpit. As long as they went along with it and appeared suitably obedient and pious, they were safe and respectable.

Being woke is the same thing. It relies on repeating mantras, not questioning group-think and not engaging any critical thinking whatsoever. But scratch the surface and it often becomes apparent that it is largely motivated by self-interest and fear of social exclusion. Just as historically many of the most publicly pious people in history have been guilty of living the most un-Christian lives, these days the most vociferously 'woke' often turn out to be the most intolerant, bigoted and self-serving. And flagrantly misogynistic, which is why feminists are rightly scathing of it.

You put this a lot better than I could 👏