To ask what you think of Feminism? (Pic included)

[Newfor2021]

After viewing this image.

I suddenly feel conflicted about whether I’m a feminist or not!

YABU - go earn your money!
YANBU - family first

I do think that for many women work is not a career that’s liberating, it’s a job they dread before they get to go home to their real lives. It’s a bit of an upper-middle class idea that work is fulfilling while being with your kids is not. I bloody hate my job, I’ve always hated my jobs, but I loved being a SAHM.

However I take issue with the image as I wasn’t “serving” my kids and husband (now exh), I was part of a unit and very much enjoyed being my own boss at home, deciding what got done when, the ability to be creative at home (which I can’t be at work), and just spending time with my kids was something I very much enjoyed.

I am at the beck and call at work, subject to many silly rules and sillier people. At home I was subject to no-one.

The poster is fundamentally incorrect though, feminism is about women having equal opportunities to men. So a woman being the primary care giver and/or a homemaker, is not anti-feminist anymore than a sahd would be.

I think it's still commonly acknowledged, especially on mumsnet, that women who become sahm can suffer social and economic disadvantages from which some women never recover, which can leave them vulnerable to abuse, control and manipulation.

While a sahd's career prospects will also be affected, due to entrenched traditions and social conditioning, we don't often see them afflicted with the same severity of disadvantage as women.

There are of course exceptions for both genders. I also disagree with anyone who claims that a sahm is not a feminist. The two are not mutually exclusive.

Adding though that I don’t think feminism was ever meant to be about serving capitalism, a portion of it got hijacked to that, but it started as partly being about being free to make choices - also of course about equal pay, rights to property, children, freedom from violence, the right to determine our reproductive choices, not be treated as objects for men’s use, intellectual equals, etc!

Theres a strand of feminism that's concerned about motherhood.

When you are a movement that encompasses nearly 4 billion people you are going to get a lot of different strands.

England.. south korea... Egypt - different societies different problems but women try to solve them.
Motherhood, marriage, lesbians - feminism is just an umbrella phrase for people who try to solve the problems that arise

Feminism to me means being able to choose whichever life suits you best and not being judged or discriminated against because of it, stay at home mum or working professional it's about being supported and celebrated while doing what you have chosen to do, so I can't really vote either way

I think that I am a feminist (you don't see me saying women don't deserve the vote or equal pay with men) and that the image bears as much resemblance to feminism as a half-melted snowman does to the Taj Mahal.

I think the idea of "serving" is what is wrong in that poster. You go to work because you have skills, that have value and thus you are paid. The risk of being a SAHM, as you see time and again, on MN threads is that your contribution to the household is not valued. You are not treated as an equal in financial matters as husband "earns" the money. Not all SAHMs are in that position but it seems to be a recurring theme of no individual money, given an allowance or use UC to cover shopping, kids costs etc and husband controls the rest. That's not equality or equal partnership.

To add to my post above - not given free time / breaks as husband works and needs to decompress on weekends, usually with a time consuming hobby.

Your issue is that you seem to think that picture is an accurate portrayal of feminism and not misogynistic rubbish.

But the picture makes no sense because you don't serve your employer for free so it's comparing two different things. And in my view feminism doesn't mean that you can't be a sahm anyway. But being a sahm does take away your freedom and independence. I did it, and at the time I was happy about it but it was a huge risk. My husband is great so I had no real issues, but even so, it certainly was not liberating.

I would say that the OP and the person who produced that poster has no idea what feminism is.
There is a very helpful and educational feminism and women's rights section on MN though that the OP could have a look at.

@k1233

I think the idea of "serving" is what is wrong in that poster. You go to work because you have skills, that have value and thus you are paid. The risk of being a SAHM, as you see time and again, on MN threads is that your contribution to the household is not valued. You are not treated as an equal in financial matters as husband "earns" the money. Not all SAHMs are in that position but it seems to be a recurring theme of no individual money, given an allowance or use UC to cover shopping, kids costs etc and husband controls the rest. That's not equality or equal partnership.

All of this + your second post.

The image (a stupid meme) is a false analogy because one of the thrusts of feminism is pointing out that work typically seen as being the preserve of women - whether unpaid caring or paid caring frankly - is massively undervalued.

You know what, there is so much wrong with that stupid image I can't even be bothered to type it all out.

The basic point, though, is that the poster is NOT going to have been made by feminists! So if you're thinking "oh well, if that's what it's about I don't think it's for me", that will have been the creator's aim. Are you going to let them get away with a straw man, or in this case, woman argument? Doesn't true feminism start with thinking for yourself?

It's also clearly extremely old (look at the domestic appliances).

OP are you being deliberately obtuse here?
YABVU
FEMINISM IS NOT ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT WOMEN SHOULD GO TO WORK OR STAY IN THE BLOODY KITCHEN.
I'm not sure if it's worth enlightening you further TBH. Maybe it would be better if you do some research on when women were allowed to vote, have their own bank accounts, FGM, period huts, child marriage, extreme porn etc.

@Newfor2021

After viewing this image.

I suddenly feel conflicted about whether I’m a feminist or not!

YABU - go earn your money!
YANBU - family first

What is the provenance of the poster, OP?

Unless we know that, how can we judge?

My family is first when I’m earning money.

My kid must be really unusual, he can’t live on fresh air.

As his parents we provide for him.

Maybe do a bit of reading, OP. I mean, a bit more than a dimwit meme you clearly think is terribly thought-provoking.

So you're questioning women's rights based on one silly meme?
Is there a silly (and offensive) meme that would have you questioning the rights of people of colour?

I am getting annoyed at the way feminist is used as a term for someone with extrem e or angry views rather than someone with common sense views.
Whenever women's issues are mentioned those who want things improved or changed for women are active / radical / angry feminists when we aren't at all - we are often humanists just wanting a fair world for everyone.

The idea of SAHM didn;t occur to me with that poster.

In fact I thought about all the working women who still bear the burden of housework despite working full time.

That's the real problem for many.
Very few women have the economic luxury of being SAHMs for any extended time.

Lots of women work close to full time and still willingly bear the burden of the home and children too.

I think the word "serve" is a clue here.

The partriarchial system disadvantages women.
But women must be mindful that they are not complicit in perpetuating misogynistic values.
Thanking men when they wash up or look after their own kids. Taking "ownership" of household duties.