.. to think we should scrap private schools?

[katnyps]

How can we ever have an equal opportunities society when people with more money can pay for their children to have a better education?

I know that there are exceptions to the rule, and great teachers in publicly funded schools, but I get the impression that influential roles in society are disproportionately represented by people paid for education... or am I wrong about this too?

I believe that Finland has one of the best (internationally recognised) education system in the world and (apologies if I'm not quite right here, but broadly speaking) that it is actually illegal there to charge for education?

Food, housing and healthcare are not material goods. A hungry sick malnourished child living in substandard accommodation will not do better at a 'better' school, whatever that is. Child poverty in this country is shocking, and dumping all the kids in private schooling into the state system isn't going to help that. And wealthy people will live in wealthy areas, with 'better' schools anyway, even if they dont have to pay for them.

I personally think the real issue here and in the UK is the class system and cronyism, which certainly private schools perpetuate but are not the totality of the problem. But then I'm fiercely anti monarchist and would depose the lot and distribute all their wealth given half a chance, the French got more than cheese right :o)

I don’t have less work in an indie school but it FAR more enjoyable and rewarding. We are running well over a 100 clubs online in my school. In my old school (the challenging state school) at the end of each day I was shaking and running on adrenaline and collapsed in a heap. Really awful on my health. I feel another 5 years would have killed me. I can however see me in 20 years still working at my current school. It’s delightful. The hours are the same in the indie of not longer, the workload in my indie school is higher but I have a class half the size so much less marking.

I don’t understand the arguments about abolishing private schools. I moved to location with outstanding state schools, I support my children if they need them then I buy CGP guides, resources etc and would get them a tutor if needed.

The banning of Public Schools would not result in the state sector getting any better.

@Iknowwhatudidlastsummer

Partly that was because I don't agree with private education and I am not a hypocrite.

it's not that black and white though, is it.

Do you buy the house in the best area you can, and chose the best school you can?
Do you give access to all the clubs and trips your child will benefit from?
Do you take your child on holidays? Do you buy resources that benefit your child and others can't access (books, computer for home learning etc..)

If you don't, sorry, but you are failing your child.
If you do, then you still are an hypocrite. Of course children benefit from their background, as they should!

many of us work damn hard to provide them with the best opportunities. Scrap that, and we might as well stick to a part-time job and at least have more free time.

Imo private education is different from holidays and the other advantages you describe.

We chose a house we liked and could afford and put the school we liked best out of our local schools as our first choice. They are not in the best area that we could have lived in, no. (Slightly assuming here what you mean by the best area.) We have been on holiday, yes But I have never disagreed with the idea of people going on holiday so not sure how this makes me a hypocrite?

@toycupboard

*I have children and could afford private education and chose state, it wasn't difficult at all. Partly that was because I don't agree with private education and I am not a hypocrite. But also I felt that in some ways (ones I thought were very important), private education actually has less to offer.

How does private school offer less? Education is the most important thing you can provide for your children, you can afford it yet choose not to offer it?!

There are aspects of education where I thought state could offer more than private.

The rich kids will just go abroad to private school and feed their economies and then return with the same higher outcomes

Life isn’t fair. Not everyone can be rich and successful; that isn’t how a successful society works.

Are we currently a successful society?

After reading the majority of these comments I'm now googling "how much does private school cost?"

@LetItGoGo

Are we currently a successful society?

More successful than any society that has ever thought everyone should be exactly equal and have all the same opportunities.

Life doesn’t and shouldn’t work that way.

*There are aspects of education where I thought state could offer more than private.

Such as though? I'm genuinely curious because I have a 4 year old

I am utterly hypocritical on this issue. Appallingly so.

Do I think private schooling is inherently unfair and that education shouldn’t be something that can be paid for? Yes!

Do my children attend a phenomenal private school? Yes!

I wake up at about 6am and my dc start their school work at 7am. We then go to private school or as we are currently, homeschool.
A lot of mums in my dc class are the same. During homeschool the teachers ask who's covered what at home if everyone puts their hands up to say they've already covered a subject the teacher moves on even if they haven't taught it themselves.
If in a state school, I would probably up my game. I usually cover this years syllabus as well when I'm teaching my dc myself each morning. On top of this I have a maths and English tutor at the weekend as well as a couple of music tutors.

What exactly would change if my dc was at a state school and a private other than perhaps they'd be slowed down at school until it came to exams where they would still get top marks and the standards would probably have to be lowered for all schools because there would be so many extra dc in the system.

Another thing that happens is, people who can't afford private school simply homeschool their dc and continue to avoid the state system anyway.
Also, even state schools can be hand picked and some are farrrr better than others especially in wealthier areas. I've got a strong suspicion that the same people in private schools if forced into the state system would simply 'buy' their way back into a better school,

Basically you're not really going to simply resolve the differences between private and state by forcing everyone through state schools.

@toycupboard

*There are aspects of education where I thought state could offer more than private.

Such as though? I'm genuinely curious because I have a 4 year old

The main issue for me is the much narrower group of people at private school, and I really wanted social diversity and for my children to have friends from all different kinds of families. Almost everyone at most private schools is either clever or rich. There are very few children in care, very few whose parents are unemployed, very few who would be on free school meals, very few who struggle academically and would study for eg a hair and beauty BTEC. (Again, at most private schools.) As you can see from the thread, some people see this is as an advantage but I don't.

Most state schools have a lot of students from other countries now too, so that advantage of private education is diminishing.

The other thing that tends to happen is that private school DC do everything at school, so sports, clubs, music etc. I didn't want school to be such a huge part of their life, so mine have always had interests that they pursue elsewhere and friends that they don't go to school with. When something goes tits up at school, there is a falling out (or worse), it's not as tough if they have a life away from school imo. It's not as convenient for me but makes for a richer life for them I think.

What makes it easier is that I feel that children in a state school that is ok or better can still do well with good parental support and encouragement. I am lucky that our local state schools are ok. So all in all it was a very easy decision.

But then I'm fiercely anti monarchist and would depose the lot and distribute all their wealth given half a chance

Welliwas presumably you would also confiscate the wealth of other very rich people?

@Sethy38

I am utterly hypocritical on this issue. Appallingly so.

Do I think private schooling is inherently unfair and that education shouldn’t be something that can be paid for? Yes!

Do my children attend a phenomenal private school? Yes!

Sethy, we have to do what we believe is right for our children. I don't consider that hypocrisy.

If all state schools were of a high standard, we wouldn't consider a private school. We can support the ethos of good state schooling and even campaign for better schools but not sacrifice our children for the sake of it, if we can provide something that will help them.

Yawn. Why don't you just look up all the old threads to find the opinions you want. Life isn't fair, end of. Get over it.

Why don't you just look up all the old threads to find the opinions you want

You could say that about 90% of Mumsnet threads.

@oiwotaluvlyday

Yawn. Why don't you just look up all the old threads to find the opinions you want. Life isn't fair, end of. Get over it.

@oiwotaluvlyday

Oh don’t be daft! Clearly the issue has legs given how many people have posted on this one thread.

Added to which, following your approach would mean mumsnet would very soon dwindle down to very little if one thread per issue allowed!

Do I think private schooling is inherently unfair and that education shouldn’t be something that can be paid for? Yes!

You certainly are a hypocrite.
Why don’t you do what others on this thread have suggested and help improve your local state school?
Also, isn’t it setting your children a bad example - saying one thing and doing another?

So should we scrap
Private hospital
Private dentists
Private nurseries

Etc etc

No I don't think they should be scrapped, if you have the money to pay for an exceptional education for your children why not.

Grammar schools however should be, there is no need for the top 10% of children to have their own school. It us unfair that this top 10% get a good education in a state school meanwhile those in the top 20% go to a separate school with stretched resources yet parents of both sets of children pay into the same tax system. Also weather you are top 10% or not is decided at 11, way to young as sone kids catch up even the dyslexic ones!!!!

@blackandwhiteknight
You make your children do school work everyday before school!? That sounds like a huge amount of pressure. I have both attended and worked in private schools and I have never come across any parents finding the need to enforce their children to do this much work out of school. I always thought the whole point of private school was that they covered this themselves.

@CakeQueen87 the teachers don't know this but during homeschools. Lot of dc are admitting to it on their online lesson. It is normal in a lot of schools. I am a tutor as well.

@blackandwhiteknight
Is this just something you're doing whilst homeschooling then? Or is this something that also happens when they physically go into school? I can't imagine managing to enforce this with my DC