.. to think we should scrap private schools?

[katnyps]

How can we ever have an equal opportunities society when people with more money can pay for their children to have a better education?

I know that there are exceptions to the rule, and great teachers in publicly funded schools, but I get the impression that influential roles in society are disproportionately represented by people paid for education... or am I wrong about this too?

I believe that Finland has one of the best (internationally recognised) education system in the world and (apologies if I'm not quite right here, but broadly speaking) that it is actually illegal there to charge for education?

@Lulu1919
Hey! I've already explained why I don't think those other things should be scrapped. I have private healthcare and genuinely DO think if you can afford, then it relieves pressure on the NHS. I still use my NHS GP and other services not covered on private though (which, if turns out, is quite a lot :D )

That's the problem @CakeQueen87 a lot of people on this thread can't imagine doing this. Yet many many parents do it so the state school vs private school situation would probably still stand regardless of them shutting.

@LyraShaeLilly
Thanks - are grammar schools an English thing (where you need the test?). As far as I can see some independent schools in Scotland and also some regular high schools have "grammar" after the name but it's just a word with no specific meaning attached - could be mistaken though?

@blackandwhiteknight
I guess yes it is a very different mindset to my own. I value my DC education but would never want to put that kind of pressure on them. Getting up at 7am each day to do extra school work is not my idea of a fun childhood!

@XingMing

There are institutions for the disruptive and disengaged troublemakers. They are called Pupil Referral Units.

By that point it's usually too late though. What we need is the Technical Schools which were an underrated part of the tripartite system. The current school system is heavily biased towards academic subjects even though some pupils will thrive on something more practical. We've got a major skills shortage in this country; machinists and welders can easily outearn many graduates.

Many people don't know what their dc are capable of though unless you try. My dc are pretty normality n it just study study but there is of course a lot of that. They achieve a lot and are happy afaik and we always carve out time for friends and fun covid dependent though.
We also work through the holidays but a lot less and get up later. But again it doesn't have so much to do with the schools necessarily. A lot of private schools know full well their own tuition isn't yielding the results they purport to.

Every year I use private health insurance I am relieving the Burden on NHS. Yeah I probably do get better quicker treatment, but
I’m paying for it so won’t be apologising. I can afford to be have a private plan so I do just that.

Every year I send my kids to a private school
I am doing the same for the state school system. Yes my children are definitely getting a better education that they would in a state school. However there are two more spaces in the massively overstretched system here.

Do I want to be paying £26k a year ? For school?

NO! NOT REALLY! It sticks in my craw!
I’d rather have a holiday or a new bathroom or a fucking big party to be honest!

Maybe we should be aiming our collective ire at the state of education in this country. I’m hoping that this may be one good thing to come out of this shitshow.

I agree with others saying improve funding and the standard of education provided in the state sector. People don’t spaff ££££ on private education when the education available at the local state is just as good (and before city-based MNers decry this stance, I know plenty of city state schools are very good. But try a rural area where the majority are “in need of improvement” or at the lower end of “good” in the Ofsted ratings).

Talk about scrapping private schools also irritates me because it’s symptomatic of something that’s becoming more common in British culture, which is tearing everyone down to the lowest common denominator rather than lifting everyone up.

And ditto re flooding an already stretched state system with thousands more children is hardly going to improve what’s already on offer.

[quote katnyps]@LyraShaeLilly
Thanks - are grammar schools an English thing (where you need the test?). As far as I can see some independent schools in Scotland and also some regular high schools have "grammar" after the name but it's just a word with no specific meaning attached - could be mistaken though?[/quote]
State Grammar schools only exist in a handful of places in England, with only three or so counties where the system is still widespread (in other places a few individual grammar schools have survived in an otherwise comprehensive system). Northern Ireland's schools still select.

But the standards of state education will never be raised while the children of the wealthy don't have to go through that system. Which is why, yes, private education should be whittled away.

@Andante57

Do I think private schooling is inherently unfair and that education shouldn’t be something that can be paid for? Yes!

You certainly are a hypocrite.
Why don’t you do what others on this thread have suggested and help improve your local state school?
Also, isn’t it setting your children a bad example - saying one thing and doing another?

2 reasons. Short but not sweet.

1. Because I’m not Florence Nightingale

1. And I’m not taking the risk risk my children’s education

I'd much prefer the posh kids are kept out of state school. They would just be flaunting their extra weath and will probably get extra tuition in some shape or form anyway, so will still have an advantage and make the working class intelligent kids in state schools feel more inferior against their richer and equally intelligent peers. I think the lack of social mobility in this country is better out of sight, out of mind in this case. Very wealthy children mixing with normal economic level children would just make the inequality far more glaringly obvious to the poorer kids.

The issue is when they leave school with universities and employers. In many professions it is about who you know, not what you know and nothing to do with competence or education level. This is the problem.

@katnyps

Not everywhere in England has the grammar system but I know it's still the system in Wirral, London, Lancashire and NI. Very pleased that I do not live in a Grammar school area and my children will not have to take the 11+, my sisters children will though as she lives on the Wirral!!

@katnyps my school fees where I teach are over £30K the school also has its own income from property and donations.
The fees at over £30K, a year, do not cover trips, extra, uniform and resources etc. We have scholarships and bursaries. My salary is the same but I get a free 3 course lunch normally included etc we eat with the pupils and I love it!

I would support the whole UK having the same state school provision - eg grammar schools or not. It is very unfair that state provision differs across the UK - abolished grammar schools in the NE where I am from in about 1970 and yet in some areas those are still going.

I paid about £10k to £16k a year each for private (day) schools for the 5 children

Tbh I can't change our local schools. I volunteered but really as an individual I was powerless against the prevailing ethos. I did provide them with some well behaved pupils though.😄

Do they have to take the 11 plus?

@emilyfrost

Life isn’t fair. Not everyone can be rich and successful; that isn’t how a successful society works.

This isn't a successful society though.

Only a good idea after they review fully the crappy state system.

@EuropeanRoller I completely agree with everything you've said and this is my own plan with my daughter.

I don't begrudge other people their choice though or wish to remove that choice because its not what I want for my child.

The "middle classes should campaign to change state schools" myth is just that, a myth. See what happened in the first lockdown when parents tried to campaign for better quality online education! Nothing!

What you need is 100% contextual offers for HE! 😂

Though someone I know covered that base, too, by taking one of her DC out of a reasonably academic private school and sending them to a state sixth form.

She left the other in private because she knew he'd do less well without the private spoon feeding.

@NoOpinionNoProblem

I'd much prefer the posh kids are kept out of state school. They would just be flaunting their extra weath and will probably get extra tuition in some shape or form anyway, so will still have an advantage and make the working class intelligent kids in state schools feel more inferior against their richer and equally intelligent peers. I think the lack of social mobility in this country is better out of sight, out of mind in this case. Very wealthy children mixing with normal economic level children would just make the inequality far more glaringly obvious to the poorer kids.

The issue is when they leave school with universities and employers. In many professions it is about who you know, not what you know and nothing to do with competence or education level. This is the problem.

Better ban those bursary kids mixing with the poshos at private school then, giving them airs and graces and ideas above their station.

@Frodont

The "middle classes should campaign to change state schools" myth is just that, a myth. See what happened in the first lockdown when parents tried to campaign for better quality online education! Nothing!

Yeh it’s not going to do much

Bigger change would be an election run on better education.. now who did that and got a landslide

@LetItGoGo

11+ isn't compulsory, however my understanding is that most children will sit it as by passing you get the chance at an exceptional state funded education.

I feel the comp schools in grammar school areas may not be as good as those in non grammar school areas because of this. In grammar school areas the comps are more over stretched than usual as the bottom 90% are in one school, this 90% is likely to have more children who need extra support.