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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

.. to think we should scrap private schools?

628 replies

katnyps · 19/01/2021 11:44

How can we ever have an equal opportunities society when people with more money can pay for their children to have a better education?

I know that there are exceptions to the rule, and great teachers in publicly funded schools, but I get the impression that influential roles in society are disproportionately represented by people paid for education... or am I wrong about this too?

I believe that Finland has one of the best (internationally recognised) education system in the world and (apologies if I'm not quite right here, but broadly speaking) that it is actually illegal there to charge for education?

OP posts:
Lockheart · 19/01/2021 11:47

This thread has been done to death many many times. If you search there's loads to read.

HasaDigaEebowai · 19/01/2021 11:48

Not this again

Add many thousands of children into an already very stretched state education system. Great plan OP.

omg35 · 19/01/2021 11:48

I know what you mean, but scrapping them still wouldn't mean equal outcomes for kids. There would still be better state schools than others in the areas where more wealthy people live probably and parents who can afford to pay for tuition etc. It's nigh on impossible to ensure equality

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 19/01/2021 11:52

Scrapping private schools doesn’t scrap wealthy parents. If I wasn’t paying for private schooling then I would be using that money to support my DC in other ways.

The issue isn’t the 7% in private school, it’s the underfunding of the 93% that aren’t.

drsambeckett · 19/01/2021 11:55

There will never be equality. Some people could still afford to pay for tutors, to live closer to the better schools in areas that the local population are perceived to share their values. Even if you banned all that how do you stop the more interested/ abler parents sitting down with their own children and teaching them.

This has been done to death.

IaltagDhubh · 19/01/2021 11:55

Fund state education properly, especially for SEN provision, decrease class sizes, increase teachers’ pay, make sure state schools have the same access to sports facilities, arts and drama facilities etc, clamp down hard on bullying. You’d soon find that private schools became obsolete. No one would choose to pay obscene amounts on schooling when it isn’t necessary. Obviously if you just ban private schools, you then have to squeeze all those kids into an already stretched state sector, making things worse for everyone.

BoozeHound · 19/01/2021 11:56

Yes, totally agree, Ed milliband’s got a great podcast episode about this. The inequality and unfairness they create is staggering.

arethereanyleftatall · 19/01/2021 11:56

Thing is there's a real positive in private schooling for society - it doesn't cost the government/our taxes - anything. Thats a lot of money to find to state school everyone.

GreenWheat · 19/01/2021 11:57

There is massive inequality in the state system though, especially with the place allocation by distance. People who can afford to, drive up property prices near the best schools, these schools generate more funds via donations and PTA, the parents can afford more extras. What some private schools could scrap is the appallingly entitled attitude they churn out in their pupils though. That would help equality in my opinion.

cherrypie111 · 19/01/2021 11:57

Yabu

ComtesseDeSpair · 19/01/2021 11:57

The reality of having more money is that it can buy you better things than people who have less of it can have. I don’t see why education is so much more exceptional than housing, food, clothing, utilities or healthcare.

Should we scrap the ability to buy choice in all those areas, too? Has that system ever worked well anywhere?

Original poster
katnyps · 19/01/2021 11:58

Hehe - sorry I didn't realise this has been "done to death" already! I am a new mum and pretty new to Mumsnet. Had a quick search on the education forum but obviously didn't look hard enough! Anyone want to link a previous thread they've read with good discussion on this?

OP posts:
Pikoty · 19/01/2021 12:00

Unfair as it is, the world needs unequality to keep going. Not everyone can or should be a high flyer.

jeaux90 · 19/01/2021 12:00

@ChazsBrilliantAttitude well said.

Also I chose for my daughter to go to a private school because it all girls. Girls perform better in single sex environments.

Also the sexual assaults including 500'rapes over the last few years committed by boys against girls in the state secondary schools have got worse and I refuse to subject my daughter to that.

When state schools are better funded, teachers are paid well and the issues around sexual violence against girls is addressed then we can talk about getting rid of private schools.

Boarding schools who do part time boarding are also really important to someone like me who has to travel for work and I'm a single parent.

LaceyBetty · 19/01/2021 12:01

The problem with private schools is that the current government has no incentive to fund state schools as they know all their kids and cronies' kids will be fine and the status quo will persist forever more, which suits them just fine. Not sure that scrapping private schools is the answer, but why would this government increase money going to the state schools when it makes no difference to their life outcomes.

GypsyLee · 19/01/2021 12:01

YABU on all counts Grin
Life isn't fair, never has been, never will.
There are more discrepencies of quality of provision in the state sector than private.
Some schools are great, some are poor, in both sectors.
What about those on full bursaries or financial scholarships, should they not be allowed to attend?

Original poster
katnyps · 19/01/2021 12:01

I also didn't mean scrap overnight - I'm thinking more phase out with a 10 or 15 year plan so that state schools could be levelled up and people in private education or enrolled could finish as planned

My thoughts were that without private schools as an option the type of people who send their kids there would have more of a vested interest in state schools - more lobbying councils to improve standards, taking governor positions etc.

OP posts:
drsambeckett · 19/01/2021 12:02

The problem is poor quality state provision and low aspirations. There is pretty much zero private education in NI. They have a widespread grammar system but even the modern schools get good results

www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2020/02/07/news/school-performance-lists-new-catholic-school-st-kevin-s-takes-top-spot-1835850/

SoupDragon · 19/01/2021 12:04

How can we ever have an equal opportunities society when people with more money can pay for their children to have a better education?

Like buying the more expensive houses within catchment of upstanding schools you mean? Or paying for tutors? Are you banning those too?

This is so bloody tedious.

AgeLikeWine · 19/01/2021 12:04

No, I don’t think private schools should be abolished. I didn’t attend one, and if I had kids I would never send them to one, but in a free society we can’t just ban things of which we personally disapprove.

What I would do is change their tax status. Private schools are businesses, not charities, and should be taxed & regulated accordingly, including paying business rates on their properties. Fees should be subject to VAT at the normal rate. If this means that some private schools are no longer financially viable, that’s fine by me.

LaceyBetty · 19/01/2021 12:04

@ComtesseDeSpair

The reality of having more money is that it can buy you better things than people who have less of it can have. I don’t see why education is so much more exceptional than housing, food, clothing, utilities or healthcare.

Should we scrap the ability to buy choice in all those areas, too? Has that system ever worked well anywhere?

Definitely need to scrap ability to buy choice in healthcare, utilities (clean water?), healthy food and education in my opinion.
GypsyLee · 19/01/2021 12:05

@katnyps

I also didn't mean scrap overnight - I'm thinking more phase out with a 10 or 15 year plan so that state schools could be levelled up and people in private education or enrolled could finish as planned My thoughts were that without private schools as an option the type of people who send their kids there would have more of a vested interest in state schools - more lobbying councils to improve standards, taking governor positions etc.
Wow, you are naive. What makes you think that the parents would choose state school over private tutors and a specialised education. Mine would have continued H.ed, we wouldn't have any vested interest in a state school. No disrespect but surely that's for the state school parents, obviously supported by attendances at school events from the wider community.
SoupDragon · 19/01/2021 12:05

Instead of trying to drag everyone down to the same level, how about investing in bringing state schools up? That is where the real issue lies.

Ohthatsgreat · 19/01/2021 12:05

Do you also want to ban extra curricular activities too? After all a kid doing music, swimming, and football classes is having opportunities not afforded to kids whose parents can’t afford it and it’s not really fair is it?

What about extra tuition? Should that be banned as that might allow some kids to get ahead in exams.

Where do you draw the line?

unmarkedbythat · 19/01/2021 12:07

I'd scrap them in a heartbeat. Prepare to be told how awful you are, though, OP. Children of well off parents cannot possibly have their needs met by the state system.