.. to think we should scrap private schools?

[katnyps]

How can we ever have an equal opportunities society when people with more money can pay for their children to have a better education?

I know that there are exceptions to the rule, and great teachers in publicly funded schools, but I get the impression that influential roles in society are disproportionately represented by people paid for education... or am I wrong about this too?

I believe that Finland has one of the best (internationally recognised) education system in the world and (apologies if I'm not quite right here, but broadly speaking) that it is actually illegal there to charge for education?

I think British people are very privileged. In my home country growing up no one expected the government to be responsible for their children education and enrichment through activities. Everyone realised that their future is in their own hands. There are so many resources, grants and bursaries available, you really don’t have to be well off to get access to quality education. Instead of moaning about privilege on mumsnet, how about doing a few worksheets with your child? Or sticking them in front of a documentary if you work from home..

if state schools were the only option then wealthy invested parents would insist on better standards (and use their influence / connections to make this happen

That's good in theory, however that could take years to achieve depending on how big the task, as such the fastest way to improve there offspring, skills, ect would be through,e.g. Private tutors, museum days, ect

Then there is also the learning ethic of the students themselves, ect, even if you had a standard one size across the country, model for the schools, due to various other factors you could start off with everyone say having the same base line of.education and skills, but then due to other enhancements to that knowledge and skills, already people become different skill sets from each other.

Education is seen as very important in Finland by the majority of families, the teaching profession is held in high esteem. You just have to read many threads on here at the moment that is not the case in this country. Children in Finland are brought up to respect the teacher, therefore, less teaching time is wasted on behaviour management.

pumpkin I agree to an extent - I think we are too passive and spoon fed in many ways.

Your argument is flawed when you say that private school parents would use their money and connections to improve state schools, if forced to use them. If private schools were banned, and aside from exploring home Ed or sending my DD abroad for her education, we’d use our so called connections and money to benefit her, not the rest of a state school. Sorry.

if state schools were the only option then wealthy invested parents would insist on better standards (and use their influence / connections to make this happen

^^

This is so not true, parents have very little power! They cannot change so many things wrong with state education.

If private schools were banned then what? State school class sizes rising from 30 to 35 or 40? Putting even more pressure on an already struggling system? Surely the quality and provision would then decrease for all children. How is that helpful?

@XingMing
Totally agree - no government has been able to magic equality into existence (and some that have have ended up slaughtering millions of their own citizens in the process) - but there are "western" countries with far less measurable economic disparity than the UK

House prices next to good schools affect the social intake

You need to lift up the state education not level down by removing private schools

If the state system isn't attracting the best teachers, fix that

Besides doing away with independent schools I’m sure you also mean selective grammar schools and the older historic public schools as well?

Economic disparity is a deliberate choice not an accident

It's the logical result of all those individual capitalist liberal choices

@Pumpkinlatte201
I am assuming the content of your post is aimed at someone other than me

YABU. Yawn.

Ah, the 'let's dumb everyone down argument'! Life is unfair. Deal with it.

When the schools in the UK are of the same high standard as Finland, the private school system could be scrapped. We're a long way off that, our schools are underfunded and some of the teaching is abysmal - not the teachers' fault, it's the system. You can't blame people for wanting to pay for something a bit better for their children.

Go and look at Christ's Hospital school in West Sussex, their fees are means tested with a high percentage of the pupils in the school from disadvantaged backgrounds meaning a fair few will be on bursaries, in other words OP, if you have the brains but no money you'll be accepted. Many of the pupils go on to the top Universities in th UK but I suppose you want to scrap that too...

Thanks to all those who are taking the time to put across reasoned arguments on both sides - and cheers for the links to podcasts etc.; I will check them out.
I am genuinely looking for the YABU arguments

I think making private school charities & allowing tax breaks for them is wrong but banning private schools? No -there are some private & real charity establishments that provide specialized education for specific groups of disabled dc

@Teddy1970
Great - thanks for the example.
As for Unis I think that is a totally different argument - I think everyone needs education at secondary school level but not everyone wants to go to Uni. I'm also Scottish so if my daughter has the smarts she could go to whichever Scottish Uni is best for what she's interested in and it wouldn't cost me a penny; more of an argument down south, granted

My ds goes to a private online school because he has autism and was bullied out of his comprehensive school.

What do you suppose children like him should do?

State schools do not provide equal opportunities either though. Just look at the mini house price bubbles created by the most desirable state schools.

@LizFlowers
Totally agree - I'm thinking long term plan here, "what we want our country to look like for our children's children". I know nothing happens overnight and a change of this scale would take 10-15 years +

Instead of getting rid of private schools. Petition the government to properly fund the state sector.

I don't think it's a good idea. It implies severely removing the individual freedom of parents in how their children are educated. That's the kind of thing I'd expect from a dictatorship, not in Britain.

(And the wealthy could simply send their children abroad or emigrate as a whole family anyway.)

I also think it's a baseless restriction on business. I can't regard the vague idea private schools "contribute to inequality" as harmful in the way pollution, intrusion of privacy, or selling dangerous products are. And I think the way we should address inequality is by supporting the bottom, not by attacking the top.

That said, removing or restricting the "charitable" status fee-paying schools have should be uncontroversial.

When the schools in the UK are of the same high standard as Finland, the private school system could be scrapped.

I don’t think the private system should be scrapped

But I do think that making state very good naturally reduces need for private.

That’s a better aim than scrapping imo although agree with above it’s state that should be good