.. to think we should scrap private schools?

[katnyps]

How can we ever have an equal opportunities society when people with more money can pay for their children to have a better education?

I know that there are exceptions to the rule, and great teachers in publicly funded schools, but I get the impression that influential roles in society are disproportionately represented by people paid for education... or am I wrong about this too?

I believe that Finland has one of the best (internationally recognised) education system in the world and (apologies if I'm not quite right here, but broadly speaking) that it is actually illegal there to charge for education?

No I doubt people would even home school. More likely move countries to access private. The same as some people do to U.K. for public / private schooling.

It’d be a shame to lower international standing. Better to get closer with state.

Gypsy did you homeschool all the way through?

The problem is partly also parents who are not personally invested in their child's education. Most of those who prosper from private education will proposer in a state school because of their parents mindset towards, education, encouragement and support.

People suggesting that true equality is impossible and therefore why bother (what about tutoring / sending them to Switzerland / extra curricular etc) are missing the point I think. Just because full equality is impossible, doesn't mean that we shouldn't try.

So do private schools maintain and exacerbate the inequalities in our society? (Yes, in my opinion.) And are we or should we be ok with that? (No, in my opinion.)

It’s possible to use state and then switch to private and see the difference (is state isn’t that bad). I think people are too down on state on here sometimes.

Not always as state provision does vary a lot. As you get selection by house price etc.

Just to add, when I was at school (state with a mix of children from different backgrounds), there were children who were not interested in learning and called me 'boffin', 'boffjob' etc for being bright and interested in learning. Those people are still pig ignorant (as I gather from FB) and passing on their ethics and the same delightful view of world to their own children. Inverted snobbery is a huge part of the problem, stemming from parents and passed down through generations.

I don't think it will stop inequality, if DH and I don't send DS to private school then we are planning on putting the money aside for him to get onto the property ladder when he's older. I'm not going to deprive my child of opportunities because not everyone can afford the same.

Also shutting private schools will just add extra burden to the state school system.

Cam2020, I agree.

Yes, a great idea. If we could scrap them in 2025 then dd3 would have finished and I won't have to pay for ny grandchildren to go (only a little bit joking)

I really don't think banning private education is solely the way around inequality.

I'm from a country not far from Finland. We are very equal compared to your society. We have fully paid education, you get a 'salary' from 18 if you continue to study and it's free of charge including university.

We have not banned private schools. But our educational system definitely has its flaws. It's very much education by the lowest common denominator. At the same time it's very 'free', not many expectations and very little to do if neither the child or parents are motivated. It creates it own divides so to speak.

What truely helps getting children better educated is support and help from home. Expectations of performing well. It bites its own tail so to speak, if you are poorly educated chances are you don't put much emphasis on education and will have a much harder time helping your children forward.

But if you really want to make a difference, you should campaign for extra schooling for those in need and support for parents to support their children.

There will always be people better off or better equipped to help their dc forward, it's not exclusively down to private schools and tutoring.

OK, so taking on board that 74% think it would be unreasonable to scrap private schools (which I have to concede includes the various types, independent, SEN, genuinely charitable etc.) it also seems like the majority agree that, whilst there are some good state schools, largely the state school system needs levelled up? So.. if you've had the patience to read this far, describe one policy recommendation for enabling this to happen

What is everyone's obsession with equality anyway?

It's actually baffling to me. I accept some people are prettier, wealthier, funnier, fitter, taller than me and just get on with life.

@katnyps

OK, so taking on board that 74% think it would be unreasonable to scrap private schools (which I have to concede includes the various types, independent, SEN, genuinely charitable etc.) it also seems like the majority agree that, whilst there are some good state schools, largely the state school system needs levelled up? So.. if you've had the patience to read this far, describe one policy recommendation for enabling this to happen

You sound a bit like you work for Department of Education, OP and you want us to do the job for you

PS. regarding policy recommendations, I understand a lot of people here are saying it's down to motivated parents. Whilst I totally agree, a more difficult question.. is there anything we could do as a country that would encourage a wider range of parents (or enable them) to be motivated regarding their childrens' education?

@katnyps

OK, so taking on board that 74% think it would be unreasonable to scrap private schools (which I have to concede includes the various types, independent, SEN, genuinely charitable etc.) it also seems like the majority agree that, whilst there are some good state schools, largely the state school system needs levelled up? So.. if you've had the patience to read this far, describe one policy recommendation for enabling this to happen

Money.

I think people who can afford to pay for their kids education should pay. Not £15k a year but a percentage of their wage.

I don't think many parents would agree with this though.

I think it's equality of opportunity that most people appreciate.

@unbotheredbutbewildered
Hehe, I can guarantee you I don't! Just enjoying a bit of healthy debate.

@LetItGoGo

I think it's equality of opportunity that most people appreciate.

Yes and I do agree, but equally we must understand that life isn't fair and make sure children have the resilience to be able to deal with that.

@PreschoolattheRitz
A lot of people right now are arguing for equality of outcome - which isn't what I'm advocating. But maybe equality of opportunity (or at least trying to improve in this area) would help bridge the gap between left and right.

*I think people who can afford to pay for their kids education should pay. Not £15k a year but a percentage of their wage.

We do. In taxation.

Jesus not this again. As if you could just shut all the private schools and the inequality and obsession with class in this country would just disappear 😂

@sqirrelfriends
Is this not basically just tax + state education?

So you are not baffled then..

[quote katnyps]@PreschoolattheRitz
A lot of people right now are arguing for equality of outcome - which isn't what I'm advocating. But maybe equality of opportunity (or at least trying to improve in this area) would help bridge the gap between left and right.[/quote]
Yes I do agree to a point

It bites its own tail so to speak, if you are poorly educated chances are you don't put much emphasis on education and will have a much harder time helping your children forward.

The U.K. is further impacted by inequality / a more obvious class system which is hard to fix

@PreschoolattheRitz

What is everyone's obsession with equality anyway?

It's actually baffling to me. I accept some people are prettier, wealthier, funnier, fitter, taller than me and just get on with life.

Post of the thread - nailed it!