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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

AIBU to address my friend's lateness?

156 replies

ThePriceOfSugar · 18/01/2021 09:20

A close friend whom I see often cancelled a special weekend plan today after insisting last week that she was free and to lock it in. She had forgotten a prior arrangement she'd made. She was very apologetic, but this is very far from the first time she's been late, flaky or uncompromising - it's about every 2nd time we hang out, which is fortnightly at least.

She was shocked by the message and says she will reply tomorrow. Was I unreasonable to tell her that her bad time management was a problem?

Exact message I sent:

Hey. I held back until I became chill. I understand this was an honest mistake and you feel bad. But I want to take this moment and tell you that while it's not every time, these lapses in time management make me and other people upset. Whether it's lateness or being inflexible when other people compromise, it is noticeable and makes the other party feel like their time is worth less than yours. I say this with love and experience, because one day four years ago a close friend gave me a sharp rebuke about my being late to hang out with him and it was a really important wake up call for me, and I made sure to plan appropriately after that so it never happened again. I hope this will be the same for you. It's not the end of the world, and I look forward to seeing you tomorrow. X

OP posts:

JaneJeffer · 18/01/2021 14:17

People like that don't like having their lateness pointed out and get very offended when it's mentioned I find. They think they are more important than you so it doesn't matter to them if you have to hang around waiting for them.

katy1213 · 18/01/2021 14:21

IT does sound pompous. You could have just said, "I'm pissed off when you keep changing plans.'
That sounds like an annual review of the friendship - and if I received it, I might think I needed to scour the job vacancies for new friends.

AndcalloffChristmas · 18/01/2021 14:23

I think her lateness is definitely not on, but as others have said, your tone is all wrong. I agree her message to you in the update is nothing like the same. You may not want people to come back to the tone but if she’s offended, it will be that that’s at fault and not the fact you’ve mention how her lateness / inflexibility/ flakiness affects YOU (not others).

However it's appallingly written - excruciatingly prim and pompous and loooooooooong.

^^
I agree with this. You come across as very patronising and as though you are her line manager at work. You’ve massively overthought it, I think, and in seeking to cut off opportunities for her to kick off, you’ve actually given her good reason to.

Andylion · 18/01/2021 14:30

*Because even if someone cancels on you theres always stuff to be getting on with, right? Films and books you've been planning on watching or reading, pottering, whatever.

With my friends who are more uptight theres no way you can say that- cue sad faces, or one word replies that let you know you've really upset them.*

How do you know your friends aren't really looking forward to seeing you and that "getting on with...whatever" just isn't a good enough substitute? And calling friends "uptight" just because you have disappointed them suggests you really don't care about their feelings.

Lookslikerainted · 18/01/2021 14:35

Your feelings are valid, that message was patronising.

Cheeseandlobster · 18/01/2021 14:36

@Andylion

*Because even if someone cancels on you theres always stuff to be getting on with, right? Films and books you've been planning on watching or reading, pottering, whatever.

With my friends who are more uptight theres no way you can say that- cue sad faces, or one word replies that let you know you've really upset them.*

Agreed. Perhaps pottering and reading is all they seem to do these days and they may have been counting on that walk for a bit of social interaction. But you know, lets all be flexible

Nochristmasbreak · 18/01/2021 14:51

@Brefugee I disagree.

Being accommodating and flexible with the people you love most in life is what it's all about in my opinion.

If you can understand your best friends worst traits and find ways to accommodate it so it isn't a problem then you are both happy.

My friend knows she is always late, she hates that she is, she is just rubbish at timekeeping, always has been. But she is awesome and I'm not going to give her "the be on time or I will push you out of my life" harshness.

God you will be a pretty lonely 60 year old with no friends if everyone has that attitude.

myhobby · 18/01/2021 15:00

@AliceinBunniland no, I haven't read your comments. Just the OPs

AliceinBunniland · 18/01/2021 15:32

I apologise I'm that case my hobby

And agree not need to mention "other people" in that context

Wannabegreenfingers · 18/01/2021 15:45

I'm neither pompous or stuck up, I just don't tolerate excessive lateness, anyone can miss the bus or get stuck in traffic, but every time, come on. The same with cancelling when arrangement's have been met. Once yes, these things happen, every 2nd time we are supposed to meet - that just tells me they aren't that good a friend.

Its about boundaries and for you this crosses your boundaries. You don't need to apologise for that.

hellejuice91 · 18/01/2021 16:26

My best friend is ALWAYS late. She likes to get trains/buses by the skin of her teeth meaning that 90% of the time she misses the one she was aiming for and ends up on the next.

So I either tell her 10am when I really need her at 1030am or I meet her somewhere where it doesn't matter that I am waiting round like a shopping centre where I can browse or my house so I can watch another episode on Netflix. Is it annoying? A little bit but I know she isn't being spiteful.

I actually think that people are a little too relaxed when it comes to lateness and most people hear the time 10am and think it means '10ish'. I don't like it but I have to accept it is kind of the norm and move on.

Cancelling last minute is rude, I agree you could well have turned down another invitation/arranged babysitting/gone home early from something the night before and that is not fair.

In conclusion:

YANBU for being annoyed at being messed about or for saying something to your friend
YABU for the tone and some of the language used in that message

Saranvenya · 18/01/2021 19:07

For many, many people lateness and lack of organisations not an active choice, there are many reasons and may be a deep seated subconscious issue.
I don't judge my friends on this, I just tell them a earlier time, its my choice if I get upset by putting my standards on others, but I manage my own issues on this as I'm never late.

Brefugee · 18/01/2021 19:17

@Nochristmasbreak
God you will be a pretty lonely 60 year old with no friends if everyone has that attitude.

thanks, I'm nearly 60 and have plenty of friends who don't dick me around by being late and swanning in pretending all is good. And those who do dick me around? if they're someone i want to keep in my life i may or may not put up with it on occasion. But they can be sure that i will dick them around at least once if they do it to me. Just because i can.

1Morewineplease · 18/01/2021 19:25

I had a close friend much like your's. She's a close friend no longer. I got fed up with waiting for half an hour / 40 minutes every time. There was always an excuse.
Time to move on.

MissMarpleDarling · 18/01/2021 19:53

I used to always be late and my mate pulled me up on it I'm glad she did it's rude.

Liana2021 · 18/01/2021 20:02

Ouch as a self admitted frequently late/flaky person, I would feel very hurt by this message. I would feel really stupid and embarrassed because of the tone and formality of it and wouldn’t respond positively to that.
I guess for me a really important element of friendship is that I would never blame a friend for flaking out on me nor would I expect mine to be upset. I know my best friend told me once I was flaky but I’m not such a serious way and I made big efforts to never cancel on her again. But for me it’s part of a friendship understanding, one that works. It’s the same in a relationship, if you can’t stand lazy guys, don’t pick the one who’s half between temp jobs and loves hanging out in his underwear on the couch.

I think we’re just witnessing a friendship incompatibility here, no one is in the wrong.

SpudsandGravy · 18/01/2021 20:06

Sounds like a very good message to me. You explained the position calmly and made it clear that you want to stay friends. I hope it works out.

Winterpaw · 18/01/2021 20:14

Lol no wonder she's not replied. I'd hate to receive a twatty message like this from a so-called friend. What were you thinking? Why did you drag in about other people rather than just being honest about your own feelings?

You don't sound like you like her much anyway and you seem to think you're superior to her when she probably would benefit from a friendship style like the ones crotch burn described. If I were your friend I'd be fading you out, can't be doing with worthy pompous crap from people I'm friends with.

firstimemamma · 18/01/2021 20:14

Yanbu to be annoyed with her (I hate lateness too) but the tone of the message is all wrong. It's a bit patronising.

Liana2021 · 18/01/2021 20:18

Just adding to this; people commenting on lateness vs flakiness.

For me it is a completely different issue. I would never have a friend wait for me for more than 15mn, I did it at 20, I organise much better thankfully at 30.

But flakiness as in; actually can’t be bothered to do anything this weekend or (my specialty), I said yes because I wanted to please my friend but didn’t check the tube would take me one hour back and forth in total, is different.

Also for slightly inflexible IMO people who say it’s abhorrent, flaky people do tend to be people-pleasers, saying yes to all invitations because they feel guilt tripped by the same kind of friends for not seeing them enough.

I think we should all take a chill pill and either not contact the person again or put up with her flakiness.

This message marks the end of a friendship for me, how can you even have an enjoyable moment after that?

Mittens030869 · 18/01/2021 20:23

For me, the mention of how your other friends feel would be very hurtful, as it would really make me think that my friends were bitching about me behind my back.

It's fair enough to raise this with your friend, as I said earlier, but it should have been about you and her, and not involved your other friends in it. (Especially if they're not all as concerned about time as you are; this is quite possible, too, as it's clear from this thread that not everyone feels as strongly about lateness as you do.)

houmousexpert · 18/01/2021 20:24

@whatsoccuringnow

Passive aggressive, sounds like you are her manager not her friend and you have not taken on board any feedback from the thread, as you are so convinced you were right! Hopefully she comes to her senses and stops being your friend. You sound like really hard work, and like you don't even like her anyway.

This!

BlackCatShadow · 18/01/2021 22:18

I hope she takes it on the chin and doesn’t cancel!

Andylion · 18/01/2021 22:43

I know my best friend told me once I was flaky but I’m not such a serious way and I made big efforts to never cancel on her again. But for me it’s part of a friendship understanding, one that works. It’s the same in a relationship, if you can’t stand lazy guys, don’t pick the one who’s half between temp jobs and loves hanging out in his underwear on the couch.

Regarding your first point, so, once your friend called you on your flakiness, you were able to get your act together, but do you make the effort with other friends?

And, are you saying that if someone breaks up with a guy who "who’s half between temp jobs and loves hanging out in his underwear on the couch", that it must be a compatibility issue, rather than him just being a lazy git?

Brefugee · 19/01/2021 08:12

But what then? you tell them when they are already at where you are to meet that you CBA? I would cut you dead for that. Any rational person would check the tubes asap and at that time tell the friend it wouldn't work and either call it off or arrange an alternative.

It just smacks of leaving the friend to do all the heavy lifting while you waft in and out enjoying yourself.

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