AIBU to address my friend's lateness?

[ThePriceOfSugar]

A close friend whom I see often cancelled a special weekend plan today after insisting last week that she was free and to lock it in. She had forgotten a prior arrangement she'd made. She was very apologetic, but this is very far from the first time she's been late, flaky or uncompromising - it's about every 2nd time we hang out, which is fortnightly at least.

She was shocked by the message and says she will reply tomorrow. Was I unreasonable to tell her that her bad time management was a problem?

Exact message I sent:

Hey. I held back until I became chill. I understand this was an honest mistake and you feel bad. But I want to take this moment and tell you that while it's not every time, these lapses in time management make me and other people upset. Whether it's lateness or being inflexible when other people compromise, it is noticeable and makes the other party feel like their time is worth less than yours. I say this with love and experience, because one day four years ago a close friend gave me a sharp rebuke about my being late to hang out with him and it was a really important wake up call for me, and I made sure to plan appropriately after that so it never happened again. I hope this will be the same for you. It's not the end of the world, and I look forward to seeing you tomorrow. X

One of my friends was late to my wedding and had the cheek to stop at the shop round the corner for chewing gum despite already being 15 minutes late and holding up the ceremony. Unfortunately people like this just let it all fly over their heads. This particular friend is constantly late as well. I thought prior to the wedding maybe for once she'll show up on time as it's a special occasion. Nope.

Hahaha I'm glad people like you exist @CrotchBurn - no-pressure friendships all the way 🙌

Me and my best friend have a 2-3 day reply time on messages at the moment and we've stopped even explaining it's cos we're mental and the world is horrible hahaha.

But yes, I'm never actually late if I do go to something because it makes me anxious and I would rather be an hour early. So I'm a considerate person there

I just see it as being about giving people the freedom to do what feels most natural to them rather than requiring meet ups or communication because "we said we would

this is fair enough, but you also have to allow the other person to have the freedom to feel whatever feelings are most natural to them about your flakiness rather than requiring them to eat shit and fake being fine with it because it's more convenient for you. don't flake on people then get the arse because they send a one word answer or a sad emoji, freedom to be yourself in a friendship goes two ways.

I wouldn’t feel able to maintain a friendship with you after that OP.

It sounds like an official warning you would receive off a naice boss

Agree with those who say it sounds really formal, a bit pompous and that you saying “others” makes it sound like you’ve been gossiping

I'd agree she needed to be told, but can't think of a good way to do it and would not have sent that message.

What I would do and have done, is never make any important arrangement, or one that costs money with this 'friend'.

Also assume they won't turn up and have another plan.

Finally, I'd see much less of them- and given that they don't turn up 50% of the time that won 't be difficult!

@fastwigglylines

I'm chronically late and forget appointments. It wasn't till I was in my mid 40s that I discovered it's because I have ADHD.

People with ADHD really struggle with time keeping, and other people's lack of understanding and "helpful" comments like "just plan to leave a bit earlier" just make us feel pretty shit, especially if undiagnosed and have no idea why timekeeping seems so easy "on paper" yet we struggle so.

Even with a diagnosis, people are still judgemental IME, and say stupidly unhelpful things like "you just don't value other people's time enough".

Chronic lateness when caused by poor executive (brain) function has nothing to do with laziness, or not valuing friends, or thinking our time is more important.

I have no idea if your friend has ADHD, but she may do (lots of women, especially, walking around with undiagnosed ADHD). On the little information you give about her, though, eg her sensitivity to criticism as well as her lateness (look up RSD / rejection sensitivity and ADHD) I'd hazard a guess it's a realistic possibility.

Your comments about not valuing other people's time will just make her feel shit. I've heard comments like yours loads, they've just made me feel shit about myself, not helped me be on time

Try to be a friend and understand her lateness as something she struggles with and ask what you can do to help, instead of telling her off like a naughty child. FFS.

Do you work?

God if my friend sent me a message like that my exact expression would be

The tone was extremely patronising. There would have been a more diplomatic way of getting your point across

Many PPs seem remarkably tolerant of regularly late, selfish narcissists who think their own time so much more important than that of their friends. Are you feeling defensive because this is exactly how you behave yourselves?

Me and my best friend have a 2-3 day reply time on messages at the moment and we've stopped even explaining it's cos we're mental and the world is horrible hahaha.

Being late and not telling someone you're running late, repeatedly, is in no way the same as not replying to a text within seconds of receiving it.

@Babdoc

Many PPs seem remarkably tolerant of regularly late, selfish narcissists who think their own time so much more important than that of their friends. Are you feeling defensive because this is exactly how you behave yourselves?

Probably. Luckily none of my friends are like this.

Too formal and mentioning 'other people' will make her feel people have been bitching behind her back. Better to have raised this in person where you would've sounded more natural. People like this rarely change anyway. Be prepared for her to go distant.

bab I am always on time, never late - but honestly I can't get worked up or sweat the small stuff. If I felt it was intentional it would be different, but for scatty or disorganised friends that are overwhelmed with full time jobs of 80 hours plus/poor mental health/little kids/tricky teens/rocky marriages I am not going to berate them for being late! Just showing up at all is quite an achievement for some of my friends.

Having empathy for people's life situations is not difficult. Not all of us are effortlessly organised with lives like clockwork, some of my friends are living on their nerves hanging on by their finger nails. Everyone is different.

What if you just don't want to do the plans any more, though?

You plan ahead and think about whether you ant to make the plan and stick with it if you do. It's very annoying to the other person if they have kept the day because you has plans and then you just change your mind.

But I also think it is about being like minded. There will be other people who are happy to just cancel plans and friends to do the same in which case that's fine but not everyone is that way and in my case I am friends with more people who don't do this because we are more compatible as friends.

So maybe it isn't about which is the right way or better way but what your friend's expectations are.

Nah, your adding in of "other people" is just a shitty thing to do.

Its purpose was so that you could feel justified in what you were saying. The outcome is that she feels like not only is she a complete let down and makes people feel bad, but also that all of her friends have been talking about her.

You should've had confidence in what you were saying and owned it. Also, try not patronising your friends.

I hate lateness, but I don't hide behind "other people", talk down to my friends or go out of my way to upset them. Not nice.

I was very much a pushover in my twenties, but by the time of my thirties I have learned coping strategies how to deal with people with different habits.

1. If you're always on time and you always respect our appointments I'm the same with you.

1. If you are always late and like to cancel our dates at the last minute that is perfectly all right and I respect your right to do that, but you have to be all right with me doing the same to you and not be angry if I cancel five minutes before our date after you did the same thing numerous times to me.

@myhobby

Nah, your adding in of "other people" is just a shitty thing to do.

Its purpose was so that you could feel justified in what you were saying. The outcome is that she feels like not only is she a complete let down and makes people feel bad, but also that all of her friends have been talking about her.

You should've had confidence in what you were saying and owned it. Also, try not patronising your friends.

I hate lateness, but I don't hide behind "other people", talk down to my friends or go out of my way to upset them. Not nice.

Is this to me? I will assume so as your comment follows mine and I have used the words "other people"!!

If so, I feel absolutely justified in what I'm saying. I think it's ridiculous if an adult person cannot make plans and stick to them. My friends are responsible adults like me.

However I also understand that not everyone thinks like me and it seems like there are people who don't mind if plans are changed last minute because they do it themselves.

Ultimately OP yes I think you were right to say something as it was bothering you. Your tone reflects that's it's bothering you. If you'd left it the issue would have continued to annoy you so you may as well try to salvage the friendship by giving the friend a chance to see things from your point of view.

I would have kept it shorter and and not mentioned that others are upset that's for them to address if they want and suggests people talking behind her back

@SaltyTootsieToes

Well, your friend needed it to be pointed out although I think inflexible was the wrong word to use as the meaning is different than someone not following through with the plans she made with you and cancelling last minute because she double books.

I would have given her a diary so she could write down her appointments/plans so this doesn't happen or better yet, show her how to use it on her phone and add both reminders and travel time to her appointments in the online calendar.

Quite surprised she doesn’t have a long list of friends who have dumped her for this behaviour. It’s very disrespectful.

You'd have given her a diary? Wow.

Interestingly MN chat is full of people telling each other they should absolutely cancel plans if they are feeling stressed/tired/don't want to go/think the plan is too much effort for the expected enjoyment. It can't work both ways all the time.

You have a point, but if it were me I'd have worked much harder on the message to make it sound far less condescending and a lot lighter in tone. Trying to reinforce your position by stating that other people agree with you is also a dick move. Sounds like she may also have been accommodating of some of your 'foibles' as is normal in a friendship.

@Palavah

Interestingly MN chat is full of people telling each other they should absolutely cancel plans if they are feeling stressed/tired/don't want to go/think the plan is too much effort for the expected enjoyment. It can't work both ways all the time.

It depends on the situation though. Meeting up with a group - fine to cancel as the plans will probably still go ahead. Meeting up with 1 other person and cancelling a couple of days before - fine as you are giving them time to make new plans. Meeting with 1 other person and cancelling the same day because you are not in the mood- shitty behaviour. That person may have turned down other plans in favour of the original meet up and may end up with nothing to do or may have been counting on the plans for their own mental health.

This may sound a bit random but is your friend perhaps of mediterranean descent? We used to live in Naples, Italy and being 1-2 hrs late was more or less the norm there. Drove me batty at first as I like to show up well on time myself. Similar with family in Israel, the attitude to meet ups etc is completely laid back with them and being late’s entirely acceptable (if not expected). Maybe being raised by parents of a culture in which being late is just a part of it would make it harder to shake the feeling that it’s fine even when you’re living in a culture where it’s mostly not?