AIBU to address my friend's lateness?

[ThePriceOfSugar]

A close friend whom I see often cancelled a special weekend plan today after insisting last week that she was free and to lock it in. She had forgotten a prior arrangement she'd made. She was very apologetic, but this is very far from the first time she's been late, flaky or uncompromising - it's about every 2nd time we hang out, which is fortnightly at least.

She was shocked by the message and says she will reply tomorrow. Was I unreasonable to tell her that her bad time management was a problem?

Exact message I sent:

Hey. I held back until I became chill. I understand this was an honest mistake and you feel bad. But I want to take this moment and tell you that while it's not every time, these lapses in time management make me and other people upset. Whether it's lateness or being inflexible when other people compromise, it is noticeable and makes the other party feel like their time is worth less than yours. I say this with love and experience, because one day four years ago a close friend gave me a sharp rebuke about my being late to hang out with him and it was a really important wake up call for me, and I made sure to plan appropriately after that so it never happened again. I hope this will be the same for you. It's not the end of the world, and I look forward to seeing you tomorrow. X

The text is way over-thought and overly wordy

I would be annoyed and see you a lot less. I’m an adult and don’t need to be “called out” for my behaviour. If you don’t like what I’m doing then don’t hang out with me, but conversely don’t act like my mum.

so you would prefer that your friends ghost you than say "FFS Toilenstripes, you're always late and i don't like it"?

Lateness is annoying I agree but that message would really piss me off.

It comes from a place or superiority and judgement. You sound like her employer.

If this is how you really are in real life your friend probably has some issues with your traits too.

Just accommodate her lateness,it's part of friendship. I have a friend that is always late, always. So I just tell her we are getting the train at 1:35pm, (it's at 1:45pm) or our dinner reservation is at 6pm (but it's at 6:30pm).

I still love her, she is just crap at timing, but I'm not going to send her a condescending message las our friendship would probably start fading away.

Is this friend one of those who over-analyses and makes things really complicated? On the surface of it yes your message seems really long and formal but I get that sometimes that approach is needed.

And yes you are well within your rights to point of if someones behaviour is detrimental to you. It might have been better to leave others out even if it is true that it's affecting them too.

Yeees @snuggybuggy, massive over-analyser and incredibly self-criticising

Just accommodate her lateness,it's part of friendship.

god such bollocks.
How about "just accomodate her timliness, it's part of friendship"

Also to the "she tells me when she's in her car" type of thing, that just shoves the waiting around from being at the location to being at home with 3 DC ready to go out. If it works for you, fine.

I don't put up with it. I will wait if someone has a good reason for being late, but if they are constantly misjudging how long it takes to get ready/get to the location and leave me hanging around? nope.

We had one habitual latee in a friendship group i was in (I mean really late - meet for dinner, then drinks, then clubbing and she'd call us plaintively at about 11pm from the restaurant asking where we were) and it really really annoyed everyone. We tried telling her 2 hours earlier and so on, it didn't work. We tried loose arrangements for her like "from x to y we'll be at the pizza place, from y-z we'll be in the cocktail bar and from z we'll be in the club" still no change.

One day she bitched about someone else (not in our group) making her wait for 20 minutes because she'd missed her bus or something and it was staggering how rude she found it.

So we stopped inviting her out and it was great

Good grief. You sound a real bundle of fun. No wonder she remembered a prior engagement.

It would annoy me that she is late and flaky, but I would’ve just text ‘ Hi, it upsets me when you are late or let me down’....your message sounds like an email from HR at work.

Might have missed this or it’s already been covered but what plans are you making in the middle of a lockdown?
Also, your text shouldn’t have mentioned anyone else, makes you sound like you all talk about her.

Thanks for the roasting and occasional cheering tonight mums. It's bedtime in New Zealand 😴. We're going to pole fitness class tomorrow. I'm sure you have something to say about that too!

It's a bit formal and patronising for my liking but you are not being unreasonable to raise it with her.

NZ, that explains how you can meet up then! (Not jealous at all!!)

I would have tried to make it more casual but it is so rude of her and I’d be so pissed off.

I’m a late person and I wouldn’t mind your message. I think I sometimes do it subconsciously to test boundaries-you have made yours very clear. If I valued you as a friend I would apologise and be on time. I did once realise I had pissed off a friend with my flakiness and wrote a card explaining why it happened (teacher and essentially cannot socialise during week in term time it turns out!), apologised and said we would only do holiday arrangements in future if that was ok. I now make huge efforts to not be late as I realise how disrespectful it is. I don’t get pissed off when people are late to see me though.

Passive aggressive, sounds like you are her manager not her friend and you have not taken on board any feedback from the thread, as you are so convinced you were right! Hopefully she comes to her senses and stops being your friend. You sound like really hard work, and like you don't even like her anyway.

I would feel like I'm getting a telling off from my boss if I got a message like that

I would have just sent something sarcastic like "oh what a surprise you've messed up again!!"

You were right to raise it with her. You are right that these people act as if their time is more important than yours.

I've had a couple of friends like this abs the friendships dont last. Well two friends I can think of who often forgot or flaked on plans at the last minute and think it funny to tell you the latest drama which meant they couldn't make it or even that they have other plans when they obviously didn't when our plans were made. I have ultimately stopped making plans with those people because I found it so frustrating being let down and having my time wasted.

I have a friend now who I would say is a good friend but she is late 95% of the times we meet. She always arrives saying how the place is so much further than she thought even though we meet in the same city centre every time and she lives in the city centre.

One time I did have a go at her because I was so annoyed. She arrived late, saying she was a few mins early so popped to the local shop to get some things and so it ended up that she was about 15 mins late. I was quite direct with her, noting it seemed like she wasn't okay with being a few mins early and waiting for me but it's okay for me to be on time and wait for her? I think she was shocked but it is annoyed when it is every time we meet.

One time she got her says wrong and I wasn't there when she arrived so she immediately called me. She checked her message and she had got the day wrong but I thought it was funny she called me immediately because I wasn't there when she was!

@CrotchBurn

I have a friend who sent almost exactly this kind of message to me.

Now I contact her much less and feel much less close to her. You're not wrong to have your own boundaries and preferences. But being like your friend, I just prefer a much more flexible approach and I like that in my friends too.

My best friend knows she can cancel on me at any time and I do the same. We can also go a month without getting in touch and without feeling like we've fucked up by not contacting one another.

I have a few friends who have the same mindset as you and while I understand it, frankly it stresses me out so much you cant imagine. When I received the same kind of message you sent, I felt like an employee. I have also been on the receiving end of messages finger wagging at me for having gone weeks without being in touch. I understand exactly where they are coming from but at the same time it creates pressure and it frustrates me.

Don't be surprised if she replies understandingly but then pulls back.

It's not a 'flexible approach' to rudely cancel on someone at the last minute though. You sound just as rude as OP's 'friend'.

My best friend knows she can cancel on me at any time and I do the same. We can also go a month without getting in touch and without feeling like we've fucked up by not contacting one another.

Not speaking for a while is different from making plans and then flaking. Unless you are children or in a situation or job that requires massive flexibility there is no excuse for not being able to stick to your plans.

@Toilenstripes

I would be annoyed and see you a lot less. I’m an adult and don’t need to be “called out” for my behaviour. If you don’t like what I’m doing then don’t hang out with me, but conversely don’t act like my mum.

Even if you're being rude by not thinking of your friend at all?

@Changi

What special weekend plans can you make to 'hang out' with friends at the moment?

Not everyone's in the UK...

@CrotchBurn

Also by the way I've used the forgotten a prior arrangement excuse loads of times, more likely is she just can't be bothered or doesn't want to anymore.

With the friends I hold dearest we can actually say to one another "actually I just cant be fucked to leave the house tomorrow - do you mind if we postpone?" and the other will say sure. Because even if someone cancels on you theres always stuff to be getting on with, right? Films and books you've been planning on watching or reading, pottering, whatever.

With my friends who are more uptight theres no way you can say that- cue sad faces, or one word replies that let you know you've really upset them. So you end up just caving and meeting up. I've actually had situations where I've met up despite telling them beforehand that I wasnt really feeling up to it, but they've replied "Okay 😔" so I've ended up just going.

This is absolutely mind blowing to me - like you would actually prefer to hang out with me despite knowing I'm not in the mood? If someone texted me that I'd much rather get on with my own stuff than basically strong arm them into meeting.

Same with texts. I have one friend I havent heard from in two months - I just assume shes busy or not in the mood to chat, but when she is she'll get in touch. Meanwhile I have other friends who basically make you feel hounded. You spend 90% of your time feeling guilty, and 10% of your time frustrated when you write to them because at the back of your mind you know you are expected to because it's been too long. Again, I always wonder why on earth you would prefer to essentially corner someone into having a conversation with you. Wheres the joy in that?

Basically I've concluded that we have friends who we love dearly but who actually we arent all that compatible with. It's a joy when not only do you click with someone, but you also find your communication styles gel perfectly. It's interesting because in romantic relationships we would just call it a day, but with friendships, it's more intricate.

This is exactly how I work. I love my closest friend for our ability to go "I just want to watch Grey's Anatomy in my pants today instead of going for a walk, love you" and it's fine - I hate feeling pressured into things.

Maybe it's different personality styles, because I definitely have friends who are more like OP, but I don't feel as comfortable around them. No doubt they think I'm a flaky nightmare as much as I think they're a bit inflexible!

@AliceinBunniland

My best friend knows she can cancel on me at any time and I do the same. We can also go a month without getting in touch and without feeling like we've fucked up by not contacting one another.

Not speaking for a while is different from making plans and then flaking. Unless you are children or in a situation or job that requires massive flexibility there is no excuse for not being able to stick to your plans.

What if you just don't want to do the plans any more, though?

As this poster said, I would rather someone cancel on me because they're not in the mood than force someone to hang out with me just because I'd put it in my diary.

It is fine for you to point out to your friend that their lateness causes you regular problems. However:

1. I would have telephoned rather than texted as the intended tone doesn't always come across in writing.

1. these lapses in time management make me and other people upset.

It was totally wrong to say this. She now knows you've all talked about her and her lateness behind her back. You should only speak on your own behalf.

1. Whether it's lateness or being inflexible when other people compromise

You aren't just talking about her lateness though are you? You are talking about her inflexibility too. That's quite a heavy thing to drop into a text.

1. I agree with a PP who said it sounds really pompous and formal.

Your friend is probably totally gutted by this and I really don't think you have been much of a friend in the way you have conveyed this to her. Tbh, I think she may have preferred you to have said something to her in anger rather than this which is far more hurtful. She may also feel you have all been two-faced.

@whoamongstus
🙌 Sounds like we would get on perfectly! Apparently we are selfish, rude and arrogant though 😂 I just see it as being about giving people the freedom to do what feels most natural to them rather than requiring meet ups or communication because "we said we would". However I'm always on time, that's a different issue