AIBU to address my friend's lateness?

[ThePriceOfSugar]

A close friend whom I see often cancelled a special weekend plan today after insisting last week that she was free and to lock it in. She had forgotten a prior arrangement she'd made. She was very apologetic, but this is very far from the first time she's been late, flaky or uncompromising - it's about every 2nd time we hang out, which is fortnightly at least.

She was shocked by the message and says she will reply tomorrow. Was I unreasonable to tell her that her bad time management was a problem?

Exact message I sent:

Hey. I held back until I became chill. I understand this was an honest mistake and you feel bad. But I want to take this moment and tell you that while it's not every time, these lapses in time management make me and other people upset. Whether it's lateness or being inflexible when other people compromise, it is noticeable and makes the other party feel like their time is worth less than yours. I say this with love and experience, because one day four years ago a close friend gave me a sharp rebuke about my being late to hang out with him and it was a really important wake up call for me, and I made sure to plan appropriately after that so it never happened again. I hope this will be the same for you. It's not the end of the world, and I look forward to seeing you tomorrow. X

@fastwigglylines

I'm chronically late and forget appointments. It wasn't till I was in my mid 40s that I discovered it's because I have ADHD.

People with ADHD really struggle with time keeping, and other people's lack of understanding and "helpful" comments like "just plan to leave a bit earlier" just make us feel pretty shit, especially if undiagnosed and have no idea why timekeeping seems so easy "on paper" yet we struggle so.

Even with a diagnosis, people are still judgemental IME, and say stupidly unhelpful things like "you just don't value other people's time enough".

Chronic lateness when caused by poor executive (brain) function has nothing to do with laziness, or not valuing friends, or thinking our time is more important.

I have no idea if your friend has ADHD, but she may do (lots of women, especially, walking around with undiagnosed ADHD). On the little information you give about her, though, eg her sensitivity to criticism as well as her lateness (look up RSD / rejection sensitivity and ADHD) I'd hazard a guess it's a realistic possibility.

Your comments about not valuing other people's time will just make her feel shit. I've heard comments like yours loads, they've just made me feel shit about myself, not helped me be on time

Try to be a friend and understand her lateness as something she struggles with and ask what you can do to help, instead of telling her off like a naughty child. FFS.

I dated someone who was chronically late. He had ADHD. It really upset me.

So rather than wait in my own for up to an hour, I called him from work because I had forgotten my mobile and said that I would wait 15/20 minutes for him (reasonable considering tubes/buses/our meeting point in central London) and then I would leave since I didn’t want to be stranded without a phone.

I left as planned. He apologized profusely, realised I would follow through and was never, ever late again.

Some people are assholes and some people have time management issues. Even with ADHD, when he wanted to be on time, he could be,

I think the problem is that you haven’t echoed her tone, you’ve overcompensated & now sound like her Mum.

If you don’t like lateness, then maybe this is not the friend for you.

The fact you have mentioned 'others' would immediately make me think you had been discussing my lateness with other people, and that there was an agreement that I was crap and your (perceived) disloyalty would worry me a great deal more than your formal tone.

Have you been discussing the issue with others? How do you know they are also sad with her?

I am afraid I also think this message might come between you.

I voted YANBU because I understand the frustration, persistent lateness is frustrating. And I think it’s better to address it with her than to just seethe about it or, worse, bitch about it with your other friends.

However, I agree with the PPs who have said that your message sounds longwinded and pompous and like an HR manager at work. It’s the sort of thing that should be addressed face to face, I think.

IMO some people seem to blithely think that habitual lateness/flakiness somehow makes them attractive in a carelessly wacky sort of way - ‘Oh, that’s just me! You know me,’ etc.
When in the majority of cases they just CBA to organise themselves.

I don’t think there’s any harm in telling them that it’s bloody irritating for the vast majority. Whether your wording was ideal, OP, I don’t know, but I don’t blame you for saying it.

@CrotchBurn

I have a friend who sent almost exactly this kind of message to me.

Now I contact her much less and feel much less close to her. You're not wrong to have your own boundaries and preferences. But being like your friend, I just prefer a much more flexible approach and I like that in my friends too.

My best friend knows she can cancel on me at any time and I do the same. We can also go a month without getting in touch and without feeling like we've fucked up by not contacting one another.

I have a few friends who have the same mindset as you and while I understand it, frankly it stresses me out so much you cant imagine. When I received the same kind of message you sent, I felt like an employee. I have also been on the receiving end of messages finger wagging at me for having gone weeks without being in touch. I understand exactly where they are coming from but at the same time it creates pressure and it frustrates me.

Don't be surprised if she replies understandingly but then pulls back.

geniunely surprised by this.

So if you arrange to meet, and you are half an hour late, is that OK?
Is it OK for you to leave your friend hanging round for half and hour?
And not once which happens, but regularly, most times you meet up?

If you arrange to meet for lunch and you know that people have put aside a day to meet up with you, and you cancel at the last minute, even on the morning, is that OK? So you and your friends don't mind?
Again, not as a one off, but every second or third time you meet?

I do understand that with some people you contact freuqently and some people you ar eflexible, but once you have arranged to meet, surely you can see nhow frustrating it is if that is frequently cancelled?

What special weekend plans can you make to 'hang out' with friends at the moment?

I think it was very wrong to bring “other people” into it. I’d be hurt and feel ganged up on.

I would follow up with a message like

'Now I have got that off my chest, I just wanted to say that I can't wait to see you, and I hope I haven't offended you. Definitely not my intention, and I am glad we have an honest friendship. See you at 4pm xx

You have nothing to lose at this stage.

I would not be meeting you put it that way, if I was your friend. So lets hope she is more forgiving than me!

“Your comments about not valuing other people's time will just make her feel shit. I've heard comments like yours loads, they've just made me feel shit about myself, not helped me be on time”

Sorry but you make other people feel like shit when you’re late so you DO need to manage your time better, even though you find it hard. ADHD doesn’t give you a pass to upset others.

OP, you clearly don’t care what anyone who disagrees with you thinks so this is a bit pointless, isn’t it?

I’d have spoken to her about it, and owned the frustration as my own not commented on others because what other people think is none of my business. I hate persistent lateness, it’s disrespectful and communicates that my time is less important. I had someone who was persistently late - like 30 mins or more every single time we met. I simply started getting on with the thing we’d agreed to do at the time we agreed to do it and told her why I was doing it. I don’t mind 5/10 minutes - anyone can have transport issues etc but more than that all the time isn’t ok so I don’t think you were wrong to bring it up with her but your tone was too formal and didn’t match her tone at all.

@steppemum
I'm never late!

People being late is annoying, so YANBU for addressing the issue.

But YABU for the tone of your message. It comes across as condescending, like you’re talking down to your friend. If I was your friend I’d be p*ssed off about that.

I have raised the same issue with my friend before, I texted to avoid the confrontation on the phone.

I said I knew she was busy and not intending to be late when we meet, but waiting for an hour each time with dc was really stressful.

We agreed she would call me when she was in the car going forward, and I would leave then, and we would arrive roughly together. Since then we have always done this, and the problem has gone away.

I think you sound like you disapprove of her as a person, like it is a failing in her personality, rather than looking for a solution together. I did not make my friend feel like shit for being so disorganised, because that is how she is, she is late for everything and always has been. I rather choose to focus on a way I could deal with her lateness so I was always annoyed!

It worked for us, and I stopped being annoyed with her.

If you are seeing her - why didn't you wait until you see her to talk about it?
I have friends who are often late and it is frustrating- and I agree it is worth bringing it up but would be better to talk about it to her?

Your message sounds very judgemental. if you wanted to send a message you could have worded it much better. And making it about other people sounds like you have been bitching about her (perhaps you have?)

My dear friend is always late (not helped by her husband giving her tasks as she's leaving the house) anyway, I always say text me when you leave the house. This solves 80% of the issues. Sometimes it's still annoying to be hanging around the house waiting with a restless toddler. But guess that's life!

Lateness is rude and inconsiderate of one’s friends. Why should you have to hang around waiting for your friend to condescend to grace you with her presence, OP? Who does she think she is, and why is her time so much more important than yours?
I don’t think I would have sent your message, OP. I think I would have arranged a meet up, then waited somewhere else out of sight, but from where I could observe the meet point. Once the friend arrived, I would wait a further hour, sending occasional texts of “Ooh, running late, be there in a while” before casually turning up without an apology. And saying “I knew you wouldn’t mind, you’re always late yourself”. Tinkly laugh. Point made, job done.

I think the message was fine. People often have an issue with directness but if someone is disrespecting you then you have the right to be direct in telling them that you're unhappy with the way they are treating you. Tone is subjective, I thought your message sounded calm and friendly.

I have a friend who is perpetually late, I've stopped making plans with her because I don't believe in friendships being one-sided. If 'flexible' people want to be offended by that then so be it, I have a life and can't afford to block out half of my day to make up for your lateness.

With my friends who are more uptight theres no way you can say that- cue sad faces, or one word replies that let you know you've really upset them. So you end up just caving and meeting up. I've actually had situations where I've met up despite telling them beforehand that I wasnt really feeling up to it, but they've replied "Okay 😔" so I've ended up just going.

This stood out to me. So you’re allowed your feelings and to let people down just because, but they’re not allowed to feel any type of way about it? They’re allowed feelings too, it doesn’t make them ‘uptight’ fgs. If you weighed it up and decided to go after all because you couldn’t handle them having perfectly legitimate feelings of disappointment, that’s on you, not them.

@Hilda40

It's a bit long and pompous.

Yanbu but I agree with this

Do you speak like this IRL?
It sounds very unnatural and a bit "Harry and Meghan"

Don't be surprised if she tells you to shove it up your arse.

@Babdoc

Lateness is rude and inconsiderate of one’s friends. Why should you have to hang around waiting for your friend to condescend to grace you with her presence, OP? Who does she think she is, and why is her time so much more important than yours? I don’t think I would have sent your message, OP. I think I would have arranged a meet up, then waited somewhere else out of sight, but from where I could observe the meet point. Once the friend arrived, I would wait a further hour, sending occasional texts of “Ooh, running late, be there in a while” before casually turning up without an apology. And saying “I knew you wouldn’t mind, you’re always late yourself”. Tinkly laugh. Point made, job done.

This is terrible advice. Passive aggressive rubbish.

The message reads like one of the ones you sometimes get posters on here typing out and suggesting the OP sends to their MIL/friend etc. I would probably have been more direct and just said ‘look, if you can’t make it in future let me know because it’s annoying when I’ve made time for it then you cancel last minute.’

Lol at a PP telling everyone who doesn't agree with them they are breathtakingly arrogant. Ironic!